Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

[Gearjoneser]

What exactly is the issue with Duncan vs Fender compatability? Same with PRS? Anytime I've put a Duncan bridge pickup next to Fender single coils or PRS neck humbuckers, the middle tone is a thin nasally honk. I'm sure it has to do with trademarks, since Duncans look so much like other companies pups.

What is the difference. Is it a flipped magnet, Southgoing not Northgoing, or backwards wiring? What the hell!!! I just put a Duncan Ant strat next to two Fender Fat 50's, and there's the HONK. I've heard that McCarties have a flipped magnet in their bridge pickup to cut down on noise when split.
THEN WHY does a Duncan not jive with a PRS neck pickup??!!
Anytime I've ever tried to combine Duncans with Fender, PRS, and Fralin, there's the thin, nasal honk. How do you correct it?

 

[aleclee]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

Can't speak for Fender but PRS flips the magnet. "Thin nasal honk" sounds like a phase problem which a flipped magnet would create.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

With fender it is magnetic, they changed top north and top south once or twice in their history and now they are opposite Duncans.

With PRS it can be a couple of things. Sometimes they do flip the bridge pickup magnet, but they also sometimes use the finish wire as the hot wire, but you wouldn't notice that unless you are splitting and combining coils from 2 HBs.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

Can you flip a magnet in a strat pickup, or are you just stuck with what you've got?
If I flip the leads on my new Duncan bridge strat pickup, will that work? I think I've tried it before and it didn't.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

Hhmmm, didn't read the PMs in regard to this matter huh? Oh well ...
On many of the PRS pups they do reverse the bridge magnet. On single coils you can't flip the magnet ...and you wouldn't want to because then it would be out with the neck. Not sure what the MacCarty's do, if the inner or outer coils are on together in the split, then they have a flipped magnet on one pup, and reverse it's phase and adjust the split accordingly.
It all depends on wind direction, magnetic polarity, and how you split the pup. Different makers do different things. If you flip the magnet it reverses the magnetic polarity of the two coils, it also reverses it's phase ... so you have to take that into account also, and rewire accordingly.

First off you must decide what coil you want left on with the other coil (be it a single coil, or one coil of another humbucker) when split ...

Then you have to make sure that it has the opposite magnetic polarity (it's magnet opposite of the other said coil)...

Then adjust it's phase to be in with that said coil ...

Finally, adjust your split (hot tap or ground tap) to have that coil (the one you want left on) on while split in accordance to it's phase.

It's all basic phase and humcancelling issues ... there is no standard (not that there need there be either), each manufacturer does whatever they want. Phase is easily reversed electrically, same for which coil is active/nulled when split. Doesn't matter if it's four conductor, or three conductor ... same thing.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

GJ - I had a Lil 59 in the bridge with Texas Specials in the neck/mid position. All I had to do was use the green wire to the 5 way as the hot, and ground the black with the bare. Problem solved, super simple fix.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

In terms of combining two single coils, if they're thin and nasally when combined just reverse the black and white wires on one. You can do it at the pickup or at the switch/controls. The only drawback would be if you wanted them to be humcancelling when combined. Vintage Strats were never humcancelling anyway so if that's not a big deal just reverse the black and white wires. Humbuckers are a differant issue altogether, but usually reversing the magnet takes care of it. It's the thin edges of a bar magnet in ahumbucker that are poles, so remove the magnet and turn it around 180 degrees or roll it over like rolling over in bed...either way will reverse the magnetic polarity and should put it in phase with the other pickup..

Lew

 

[Curly]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

from the FAQ:

"Can Seymour Duncan pickups be mixed with other manufacturers' pickups?

Yes, Seymour Duncan pickups are compatible with other manufacturers' pickups. With Gibson and some other brands Seymour Duncan pickups are a direct replacement. With Fender and some other brands the polarity of one of the pickups needs to be changed, either by flipping a magnet or simply switching the hot and ground wire connections of the Seymour Duncan pickup inside the guitar. One of the exceptions to this is mixing Seymour Duncan and PRS humbuckers in a guitar using the PRS five-way rotary switch. If you want to use Seymour Duncan pickups with PRS type five-way rotary wiring you must use two Seymour Duncan pickups. Mixing PRS and Seymour Duncan pickups in this manner will NOT be hum-canceling in the center three positions. Seymour Duncan active pickups are also not compatible with EMG active pickups unless some type of phase inverter is used."

"Are Seymour Duncan and Fender single coil pickups compatible?

Yes they can be but Seymour Duncan and Fender pickups are magnetically opposite. Many players find that after installing a Seymour Duncan bridge single coil into a Strat they must switch the Fender mid and neck position pick ups both in the pick guard and in the wiring at the switch to keep the #2 and #4 positions noise canceling. There are exceptions to this rule though because Fender has changed their magnetic orientation several time in the last four decades. Generally with single coil pick ups it's easier to stick with one manufacturer to avoid the trouble of trying to figure out how to get all the pickups properly phased both electrically and magnetically."

 

[Rodney]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

To be clear on the 'issue" part (From my personal recollection), Seymour begin his craft rewinding pickups. When he started manufacturing them he wound them in the direction the original pickups were and he has been doing it that way ever since.He has a genuine interest in vintage pickups. The Humbuckers are wound in the direction as the original PAF's and the single coils are wound like the original Fenders.

Over the years, Fender has done multiple configurations in regards to to direction and magnetic polarity. Anybody else of course is choosing thier own method based on thier own criteria or needs. PRS literally had to reverse magnets to get thier original 5-way switching to work.

A standard would be nice, but where do you start?

As Kent suggested, it is really just a matter reconfiguring your phase to match your goal/pickups/wiring/ everything else.

BTW- Gearjoneser, you can reverse the leads on a single coil to change the phase. It isn't recommended and it will make your magnets 'hot'. You may get a buzz when (if) you touch the magnets to the strings but it can def be done in a pinch. (Sometime a 'pinch' lasts for years :laugh2: )
You didn't hear it here. :burnout:

Peace,
Hope to help.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

BTW- Gearjoneser, you can reverse the leads on a single coil to change the phase. It isn't recommended and it will make your magnets 'hot'. You may get a buzz when (if) you touch the magnets to the strings but it can def be done in a pinch. (Sometime a 'pinch' lasts for years :laugh2: )
You didn't hear it here. :burnout:

Why would that be? The magnets/polepieces don't touch uninsulated copper wire, tho the copper wire is wound around the polepieces in a Strat pickup. Reversing the black and white wires would make the cover of Tele neck pickup hot...but only if the ground wire from the cover to the black wire is not moved to the white wire...but that's only if the black and wire are reversed. I don't think reversing the black and white wire in a Strat pickup would ever make the polepieces hot in a conventional Strat pickup without a metal cover or bassplate. Lew

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

Thanks for the good info guys. So is Jeff H correct about making green hot, and twisting the clear and black together for ground, when adding a humbucker to two Fender singles...putting them back in phase with each other?

As far as my Duncan single and two Fender singles, I'll try reversing the leads on my Duncan. If it works...great, if not, how much for a neck and middle Ant, Lew?

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

That FAQ is incorrect regarding combining SD and PRS pickups with the five way switching. If you combine a SD bridge pickup with a PRS neck pickup with the 5 way switching, you must flip the bridge pickup magnet and wire the SD bridge pickup white-hot and red-ground.

I sent the correction to Kelli after doing some testing and re-writing that FAX, but obviously it didn't get updated.

I'll look into it.

 

[Rodney]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

Why would that be? The magnets/polepieces don't touch uninsulated copper wire, tho the copper wire is wound around the polepieces in a Strat pickup. Reversing the black and white wires would make the cover of Tele neck pickup hot...but only if the ground wire from the cover to the black wire is not moved to the white wire...but that's only if the black and wire are reversed. I don't think reversing the black and white wire in a Strat pickup would ever make the polepieces hot in a conventional Strat pickup without a metal cover or bassplate. Lew

Your right Lew,
My hands were typing one thing, my mind was thinking something completely unrelated. The relevance of my post will come to me and I will pipe in then... :laugh2:

Hope to help.

Rodney

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Compatability Issues Duncan,Fender,PRS

GJ -

All I know is that when I had the Texas Specials in the neck and mid of my strat, with the Lil 59, switching the green and black wires did the trick. I assume that would work for the C5 you're putting in that strat (since that's your bridge pickup of choice), or with any Duncan 4 conductor pup.

Strat pups with hot and ground I'm not sure about.