Considering an LP/LP clone

Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

You can work around that with your choice of PU's, magnets, and pots. When you can pick up a used Epi LP for around $300 in nice condition (as I have many times), and upgrade the PU's (also purchased used), you can have a very nice sounding guitar for a minimal investment.

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This is all well and good- And I agree, if you are looking for a budget instrument that "sounds & plays good". However, If I'm buying a Les Paul (or SG, or Explorer, etc). I'm buying it for a certain sound and feel. I've owned a couple dozen high end Gibsons (including Custom shop stuff) as well as 6 or 7 epiphones- of course you can make the Epis a decent sounding guitar, but they never play or sound the same as a Gibson using the correct tonewoods, high quality hardware, and thin lacquer finish. The key is really the woods and hardware- you can swap pickups and re-wire all you want in a "mystery mahogany" - it will never sound the same as African, Central/South American , or ESPECIALLY "true" Honduras mahogany. The stuff most MIC/MIK guitars are made with sounds closer to Alder than a true mahogany. Does it sound good? sometimes, but it never sounds the same.

For all the money people put into an Epiphone to upgrade them (and I've done it myself too-even recently), you are better off buying a MIJ clone (of which I've owned a few, both old & new). You are getting better hardware (Tuners, bridge, etc), higher quality mahogany (African/Sapele-Honduras on the high end stuff) and maple, higher quality fret material, and pickups- You are getting a far superior build as well.
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

I've owned a couple dozen high end Gibsons (including Custom shop stuff) as well as 6 or 7 epiphones- of course you can make the Epis a decent sounding guitar, but they never play or sound the same as a Gibson using the correct tonewoods, high quality hardware, and thin lacquer finish.

That's just it, only an minute fraction of players will ever own a couple dozen high-end Gibsons in their lifetime. Most will never even own one. They're not marketed to be a working man's guitar. So for the lucky few, live it up and buy Gibsons. Indulge yourself. More power to you. You've got one advantage, but there's other factors.

For the vast majority of us, we have to come up with a Plan B, and Epiphone offers some very cost effective alternatives that allow us to play the Gibson designs we love. No, they won't sound exactly the same as a Gibson, but with some know-how they can still sound very good. A lot of a player's sound is in his hands, set-up, and how well his PU's, magnets, and pots work together with his wood, amp, and speaker. There have been gigs and jams when my Epi's have sounded better than the guys with Gibsons (according to the band & audience). If they were forum members and knew all the stuff we do, yeah, they'd probably beat me on tone quality. But...most Gibson owners (as with most players in general) have no clue about tweaking to get better tones. So the self-sufficient guy with an Epi may just have a better-sounding guitar than the average oblivious Joe armed with a Gibson. And if the guy with the Epi is a better player, than the Gibson-owner comes out a distant second in all categories. He may have spent 2 or 3 grand, but that only gets you so far on stage. No one in the crowd cares about price tags, it's the final product they hear, and the guitar is only one piece of that. You can't buy what really makes you sound good.
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Oh but in all fairness should probably add that later that day Knopfler went across the street and picked up his $6000 strat copy from Pensa Suhr... LOL

Wrong! John Suhr was the in-house luthier for Rudy at that time.

He personally built the partscaster I've bought there.

Man, I'm oooooooooold...
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

if you end up thinking the epiphone route then forget it. go with the dean soltero i have for sale. hehehe.

seriously though, great guitars.
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Wrong! John Suhr was the in-house luthier for Rudy at that time.

He personally built the partscaster I've bought there.

Man, I'm oooooooooold...

Then your partcaster is actually a pre Pensa-Suhr Pensa-Suhr. LOL. I know John was doing the in house thing for Pensa but didn't they eventually take another space above the pawn shop to do the work and become truly Pensa-Suhr? My memories a bit foggy.

And you only got me beat by a few years which explains why my memory isn't what it use to be. The 80's were a helluva time...
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

I think paying the price for higher end guitars is worth it. They come with better hardware/electronics and the fit/finish is much more superb. I totally agree so much of the tone comes from your fingers, but a high end guitar is the right choice when the background info is right.

I would also suggest Hamer and Jarret guitars.
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Then your partcaster is actually a pre Pensa-Suhr Pensa-Suhr. LOL. I know John was doing the in house thing for Pensa but didn't they eventually take another space above the pawn shop to do the work and become truly Pensa-Suhr? My memories a bit foggy.

And you only got me beat by a few years which explains why my memory isn't what it use to be. The 80's were a helluva time...

The shop you're talking about is probably what is now the Rudy's Music Repair Shop. I went into Rudy's music once looking for the repair shop and met Rudy- a really nice guy- who told me to go around the corner- and go in the first door up to the fourth floor-- and be very careful, the second door is a strip club.
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Let's get over all the construction drama....

Does it FEEL good? Does it have the SOUND you want? Then don't worry if it was made by Toyota.

If all that is wrong is the pups, that's a dang cheap fix if everything else good...
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Since you asked about the Agile's, I'd like to chime in.

The Al-3000 and 3100's have the upgrades to make them fantastic guitars right out of the box. I was looking for a lower priced LP copy and took a chance on an AL-3000 and am so impressed with it in its stock form that I will be buying another model.

The Graph Tech nut keeps the guitar in tune, the hand-filed frets are nice and smooth (unlike the rough edges of my 2 LP Studios), pickups sound great, Grover tuners, good electronics, and binding make for a steal at under $400 plus shipping.
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

I've heard nothing but good things about Agile LP's. They've got a big selection including some with P-90's. They might be the best value out there today. At some point I'm going to have to get one.
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

You can work around that with your choice of PU's, magnets, and pots. When you can pick up a used Epi LP for around $300 in nice condition (as I have many times), and upgrade the PU's (also purchased used), you can have a very nice sounding guitar for a minimal investment.

You guys would be amazed at how many national blues acts use Chinese/Korean Epi's, sometimes stock. I just talked to Rusty Zinn last weekend (highly repsected blues west coast guitarist who's played with a lot of big names in blues), and he was playing a Chinese Epi Riviera 335 on stage that night, with the stock PU's. He bought it used for $375. He said he's spent a lot of money in the past on high-end & vintage guitars, but "the sound is in the fingers."

Spend more if you want, but a mid-priced import like a decent Epi won't 'hold you back.' If you have a high-end guitar and are a so-so player, and a guy with a cheap import plays circles around you at a gig or jam, who looks stupid? It ain't the tool, it's what you do with it.


This is a good point! Alot of guys are doing this and playing LTDs and stuff to avoid getting the high end gear damaged or stolen. The mid priced stuff nowadays is quite gigable as most have good build and grover keys and such. I have an an EPI LP that played, sounded and felt alot better than my Gibson studio. the studio was sold.. The stock pups on the Epi were pretty darn nice. But I upgraded and they are even better..
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

I've heard nothing but good things about Agile LP's. They've got a big selection including some with P-90's. They might be the best value out there today. At some point I'm going to have to get one.

Ditto! Ive heard ALOT more good than bad.. The prices are rising tho.. I want one, but SURE dont need one...

Edwards are great too!!
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Spend more if you want, but a mid-priced import like a decent Epi won't 'hold you back.' If you have a high-end guitar and are a so-so player, and a guy with a cheap import plays circles around you at a gig or jam, who looks stupid? It ain't the tool, it's what you do with it.

This is why I always play inexpensive imported guitars at gigs. I'm forever getting compliments to the effect that, while I may suck as a player, at least I'm not pretentious. : party:
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Wrong! John Suhr was the in-house luthier for Rudy at that time.

He personally built the partscaster I've bought there.

Man, I'm oooooooooold...



oh god I remember those DAYS .....lol......I used to work at Manny's(RIP)
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Although not cheap but alot cheaper than a Gibson (and alot better imo) is the Carvin CS
guitars (California Single Cut). Absolutely blows a Gibson Standard away for half the price. You cannot go wrong with this guitar or any Carvin for that matter!
 
Re: Considering an LP/LP clone

Since you asked about the Agile's, I'd like to chime in.

The Al-3000 and 3100's have the upgrades to make them fantastic guitars right out of the box. I was looking for a lower priced LP copy and took a chance on an AL-3000 and am so impressed with it in its stock form that I will be buying another model.

The Graph Tech nut keeps the guitar in tune, the hand-filed frets are nice and smooth (unlike the rough edges of my 2 LP Studios), pickups sound great, Grover tuners, good electronics, and binding make for a steal at under $400 plus shipping.

+1. I have an Agile AL-3100 and it is comparable to my Gibson LP Classic.
 
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