Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

[Snoogles]

I intonate with the open/fretted-12th string method, and the G-string is the most out of intonation on all other frets other than the 12th. below the 12th fret the G string is 4-8 cents flat. above the 12th fret the G string is 5-12 cents sharp.

the G string compensation on the earvana nut is the furthest forward towards the bridge. might this compensation be causing the intonation problems?

if so, is it possible to modify the nut at the G string without removing the nut?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

Obvious questions
1) To what make/model of guitar have you fitted an Earvana compensated nut?
2) Which version of the Earvana nut? (Some are preset. Some have slide adjustability.)
3) What adjustments have you made so far?

 

[JohnJohn]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

To add to what Funkfingers said my first thought was that maybe the G is catching in the nut slot.

Have you checked to make sure that the slot is cut properly or that you don't have a false string ?

 

[Snoogles]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

Obvious questions
1) To what make/model of guitar have you fitted an Earvana compensated nut?
2) Which version of the Earvana nut? (Some are preset. Some have slide adjustability.)
3) What adjustments have you made so far?

1 - ESP LTD EC-400vf, came as standard nut with the guitar
2 - non-adjustable version
3 - haven't made any adjustments to the nut itself. the neck relief is about .2mm and action at the 12th fret is slightly less than 2mm at the 22nd fret

To add to what Funkfingers said my first thought was that maybe the G is catching in the nut slot.

Have you checked to make sure that the slot is cut properly or that you don't have a false string ?

as far as i can tell the G isn't catching, and its cut properly? don't know what a false string would be

 

[JohnJohn]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

When you pluck a false string it doesn't vibrate properly.
Usually a string will go in an elliptical pattern as the vibration dies off, with a false string it will have a strange wobble as it vibrates.
It will almost look like you're seeing it under a strobe light.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

I have the Earvana on both of my electrics, both intonate beautifully. I play often with pianos, violins, and cellos and haven't had any issues being terribly out of tune with them.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

Sorry if this sounds condescending, but I have to ask: Does the string actually sound out of tune in real-world playing, or is that just based on what the tuner sez? Just like a piano, most notes on the guitar should not read dead center on a tuner when the instrument is properly tuned. If all notes were "perfectly" tuned, the instrument would actually sound horrendously out of tune. Once intonating the 12th via tuner, use your ears to listen to various chord formations all over the neck, not the tuner to read every fret.

Assuming the intonation truly is bad to the ear, as a first, easy, cheap step, I'd try a new string. Let it "break in" for a day or two before intonating.

If you still have problems, have a pro reinstall the nut (assuming that you put it in yourself).

 

[Snoogles]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

Sorry if this sounds condescending, but I have to ask: Does the string actually sound out of tune in real-world playing, or is that just based on what the tuner sez? Just like a piano, most notes on the guitar should not read dead center on a tuner when the instrument is properly tuned. If all notes were "perfectly" tuned, the instrument would actually sound horrendously out of tune. Once intonating the 12th via tuner, use your ears to listen to various chord formations all over the neck, not the tuner to read every fret.

Assuming the intonation truly is bad to the ear, as a first, easy, cheap step, I'd try a new string. Let it "break in" for a day or two before intonating.

If you still have problems, have a pro reinstall the nut (assuming that you put it in yourself).

you HAVE to explain this one to me

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

That statement may sound wierd, but it is actually true. Guitars with straight frets (nearly all guitars) cannot be in tune on every string on every position on the neck. Impossible! It's due to the different thicknesses and vibration patterns of each string (the unwound "G" string is the biggest ptoblem). The Earvana nut does a decent job of compensating for that, but it's not perfect, nor can ANY nut perfectly compensate for intonation problems. I make my own compensated bone nuts which work a little better than the Earvana, but still not perfect.

Perhaps someone with a good explanation of the physics involved can chime in and explain why.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

IIRC, it has to do with how we process sound. When every note in a chord is tuned dead perfect, for some reason it actually sounds dischordant to our brains. That's why piano tuners do not use a tuner for every string. They usually just use a tuner for middle C, and tune the rest by ear relative to it.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

My first thought: are you using a wound g? If so, then the nut is in fact the entiire cause of the problem.

To explain in depth the tempered scale and its ramificatiions with result to fret placement, intonation, and "improved" systems such as Buzz Feiten, Earvana and True Temperament (as well as why "improved" is in quotes, as they have significant drawbacks, as well) would bi significantly beyond the time I have available or the scope of this thread, but here are a few good threads about it. Do a search for posts by "Octavedoctor" or myself in threads about "Buzz Feiten", "True Temperament", and "Earvana", that should get you to most of the info....

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

I have an LTD EC-401w. It comes factory fitted with a non-adjustable Earvana nut. I have never had any issues with the nut slots - either in terms of the slots being incorrectly cut or the break-off points causing any nasties.

The usual clues to nut problems are clicking and pinging noises during tuning or after vigorous string bends. If you are not experiencing these, I would pay attention to the following details, in this order;
1) How old/new are your strings?
2) Have they been properly stretched in?
3) Is the bridge saddle damaged or cracked where the G string passes over it?
4) Has the tune-o-matic bridge arch collapsed?

 

[Diminished Triad]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

My first thought: are you using a wound g? If so, then the nut is in fact the entiire cause of the problem.

To explain in depth the tempered scale and its ramificatiions with result to fret placement, intonation, and "improved" systems such as Buzz Feiten, Earvana and True Temperament (as well as why "improved" is in quotes, as they have significant drawbacks, as well) would bi significantly beyond the time I have available or the scope of this thread, but here are a few good threads about it. Do a search for posts by "Octavedoctor" or myself in threads about "Buzz Feiten", "True Temperament", and "Earvana", that should get you to most of the info....

Is Buzz Feiten preferred?

 

[dazzlindino]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

I intonate with the open/fretted-12th string method, and the G-string is the most out of intonation on all other frets other than the 12th. below the 12th fret the G string is 4-8 cents flat. above the 12th fret the G string is 5-12 cents sharp.

the G string compensation on the earvana nut is the furthest forward towards the bridge. might this compensation be causing the intonation problems?

if so, is it possible to modify the nut at the G string without removing the nut?

Are you using a peterson tuner?
Most tuners are not super accurate, research peterson tuners ( peterson website )
http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm?category=180 to see how far out most tuners are
once you use one you wont go back

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Could the Earvana nut be causing more intonation problems than its solving?

This thread has reached the point when it would help to have photographs of the OP's guitar.

I would like to see how close the pickups are to the strings. I would like to see the G string, under tension, passing over its saddle, closely followed by the same saddle without the string passing over it.

One other thing. What size frets does the LTD have?