Cry baby Classic vs?

[blueman335]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

my question is basically what is the difference tonally between a red fasel and a halo.

It's not that simple. As I said, the circuit board and component values are very important parts of the sound; the inductor is only one piece of the formula, some say a small piece. When you get a wah, you're getting everything else that comes with that particular board's layout (lots of different boards in use). Besides the board, the potentiometer's resistance (ohms) and sweep also impacts the sound. Having a halo doesn't mean it's a better-sounding, or more vintage-sounding wah. There's no industry standard for an inductor to be made an exact way. There's variation within each type depending on who makes them, and what tolerance limits the manufacturer has. Don't get hung up on the inductor.

Instead of worrying about individual components, listen to clips. Your ears are the ones that decide.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

There are some basic mods out there for the original crybaby that might save you from buying a whole a new wah. Here's some technical details that should help in getting to understand wah pedals some more http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/wahpedl/wahped.htm

And here's a vid that goes through the wahs you're considering, that should give a idea tonally
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7ZKIvACarzE

 

[DinoTrousers]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

If you're looking for classic British blues-rock, why not go with Vox? It's what Clapton and Hendrix used. The 846 Handwired is a masterful piece of artwork. And the 847 standard, although not true-bypass, has a phenomenal buffer that doesn't suck any tone to my ears. If you can find a used Vox 848 reissue (There's one on Reverb now for about $130), then you'll have one of the closest modern units to the original wah those guys would have been using, and it's true bypass!

All this said, I use a Clyde Deluxe, and it's absolutely fantastic, but more than some people want to spend.

 

[Axeman16]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

i had a vox wah for a while and found it to be nothing but inferior to the original cry baby

 

[blueman335]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

If you're looking for classic British blues-rock, why not go with Vox? the 847 standard, although not true-bypass, has a phenomenal buffer that doesn't suck any tone to my ears.

With Vox's, the input/output jacks aren't part of the circuit board, so rewiring them for true bypass is easy. Buffers help, but can't duplicate the sound of true bypass.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

If you get a wah that isn't adjustable, and it isn't quite the sound you want (thru your guitar, PU's, and amp), then you're stuck.

Not really - wahs are some of the simplest pedal circuits out there, and usually there's only a few small part value changes between models. Your standard Vox wah and standard Crybaby are the exact same circuit, the Hendrix wah's *only* differences from the current production GCB-95 (they come stock with a red faded now) is the .022 uF cap instead of .015uF. The GCB-95 isn't too different from a Clyde McCoy wah. If you want it to be the exact same circuit, you just swap a total of 8 components (mostly resistors, and the two transistors). Really the mod that make the biggest difference between the McCoy and GCB are also the easiest - there are two resistors in parallel with the inductor, a 33k one and a 1K5 one. Those affect the Q factor. Raise the 33K to 100K, and it's a lot more McCoy like. Raise the 1K5, and your wah has a fuller midrange. You can easily wire in two potentiometers - a 100K pot in line with the 33K and a 5K in line with the 1K5, and your wah becomes very adjustable by just changing two things. It's also really easy to add a switch that allows you to switch the sweep cap between 3 values. I have the options .015uF/.025uF/.065uF to switch between brighter/darker/bass wah. The GCB by itself is pretty versatile, then very fine-tunable to get it exactly where you want.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

Not really - wahs are some of the simplest pedal circuits out there, and usually there's only a few small part value changes between models. Your standard Vox wah and standard Crybaby are the exact same circuit, the Hendrix wah's *only* differences from the current production GCB-95 (they come stock with a red faded now) is the .022 uF cap instead of .015uF. The GCB-95 isn't too different from a Clyde McCoy wah. If you want it to be the exact same circuit, you just swap a total of 8 components (mostly resistors, and the two transistors). Really the mod that make the biggest difference between the McCoy and GCB are also the easiest - there are two resistors in parallel with the inductor, a 33k one and a 1K5 one. Those affect the Q factor. Raise the 33K to 100K, and it's a lot more McCoy like. Raise the 1K5, and your wah has a fuller midrange. You can easily wire in two potentiometers - a 100K pot in line with the 33K and a 5K in line with the 1K5, and your wah becomes very adjustable by just changing two things. It's also really easy to add a switch that allows you to switch the sweep cap between 3 values. I have the options .015uF/.025uF/.065uF to switch between brighter/darker/bass wah. The GCB by itself is pretty versatile, then very fine-tunable to get it exactly where you want.

I'm well aware of all that, I do that to some of my wahs. I was referring to the OP's situation, if he's not going to be modding his pedals. It doesn't seem likely that he'd rewire a wah for true bypass, and modding a PC board would be out of the question.

If you're handy with a soldering iron and make a little effort to learn, you can do all kinds of things to wahs.

 

[Axeman16]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

i could mod my wah but i really dont see the point. id rather just get one built the way i want from the factory. i want a basic wah, no dials or knobs just does what its supposed to.

between the options ive narrowed down to the answer is there somewhere.

I should mention i dont dislike my original crybaby. it does what its supposed to and i like that. but that being said what i dont like about it is when all the way back on the bass side gets flubbery sounding and full on treble is too spikey. i know i can adjust the rack rotating the wah to remedy this but i cant be bothered since im gonna replace it soon anyways.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

what i dont like about it is when all the way back on the bass side gets flubbery sounding and full on treble is too spikey. i know i can adjust the rack rotating the wah to remedy this but i cant be bothered since im gonna replace it soon anyways.

You could adjust the rack in the time it took you to write this last post. I'd do that, and wire it for true bypass, and keep it as a 2nd wah.

 

[Axeman16]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

no since i have extremes at both ends of the pot if i adjust it one way it will only make the other end more severe.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

Update?

Have you checked out the Fulltone Standard? Probably exactly what you're looking for.

 

[Axeman16]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

grabbed a cry baby classic from the long and mcquade inventory blowout for dirt cheap. took a little tweaking the height of the switch to get a nice smooth stomp and adjusting the pot but got it in that sweet spot like my old one.

wah on sounds essentially the same which is fine i liked the sweep of my old wah. adjusted a/b'ing with the old one, brought it back just a hair on the treble end to tame the spike a bit.

wah off signal sounds much healthier stronger and fuller.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

grabbed a cry baby classic from the long and mcquade inventory blowout for dirt cheap. took a little tweaking the height of the switch to get a nice smooth stomp and adjusting the pot but got it in that sweet spot like my old one.

wah on sounds essentially the same which is fine i liked the sweep of my old wah. adjusted a/b'ing with the old one, brought it back just a hair on the treble end to tame the spike a bit.

wah off signal sounds much healthier stronger and fuller.

Other than solving the true bypass issue, it doesn't seem like you got the 1960's wah tones you wanted. 95F's don't sound particularly vintage.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

between the options ive narrowed down to the answer is there somewhere.

I should mention i dont dislike my original crybaby. it does what its supposed to and i like that. but that being said what i dont like about it is when all the way back on the bass side gets flubbery sounding and full on treble is too spikey. i know i can adjust the rack rotating the wah to remedy this but i cant be bothered since im gonna replace it soon anyways.

Based on what I read, I was going to say "Just get the Crybaby Classic" and be done with it.

And I see you did…..


Now - a couple of other points:

You are getting a lot of push-back because based on your original post, a Crybaby is not the right answer! What I read says you REALLY want a Vox with True bypass. But that was not an option. And - as the owner of a Thomas Organ company Stereo Wah Fuzz Volume, which is pretty friction' Vintage - yeah, the classic is NOT that sound.

Also, based the highlighted section above, a 535Q will take care of that perfectly. Set where you want, and forget. Whatever makes you happy.

As for the inductor issue - I realize guys with dog ears care about this stuff, and it can make a difference (especially in a non-adjustable Wah). But - the really easy way around it is an adjustable.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

As for the inductor issue - I realize guys with dog ears care about this stuff, and it can make a difference (especially in a non-adjustable Wah). But - the really easy way around it is an adjustable.

Mike (XSSIVE) has done a wide range of wah mods and has some good posts on the topic. He likens inductor changes to string changes on a guitar. Differences, but not night/day. Changing the sweep cap and Q & Bias resistors are more like Pickup changes. Basically the 535Q, MC404, Teese RMC-3, Xotic Wah, etc. all take the typical "mods" and put them on externally adjustable pots and selector switches.

I understand the OP's desire to find the perfect wah rather than fiddling with an adjustable one, but I really do like being able to tune it to my pickups, OD/Fuzz and Amp!

Axeman16, enjoy your new wah!

 

[Axeman16]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

well yes i did see the vox and it looks quite nice, anything nice comes with a price tag. the crybaby classic was pennies at a cleanance sale so im happy with.

what i end up with is the wah that seemed to suit my needs the best without spending much at all, and i now have an original crybaby to gut and handwire to vintage spec

 

[Aceman]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

Cool - I am all about Price/Performance. Fiddy bucks for a Weeping Demon….adjustable, you know!

 

[blueman335]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

well yes i did see the vox and it looks quite nice, anything nice comes with a price tag. the crybaby classic was pennies at a cleanance sale so im happy with.

what i end up with is the wah that seemed to suit my needs the best without spending much at all, and i now have an original crybaby to gut and handwire to vintage spec

Redoing your first wah is a great way to get what you want. There's nice replacement boards, or whole kits available. Some of those guys are wizards at this stuff.

It seems you're happiest with the price of the Classic, more than getting the different tones you were looking for. You can mod or replace that board too...

 

[Axeman16]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

the initial purpose was to have the true bypass to complete my board as the original wah was the starting point, so mission accomplished.

where could i find some of these replacement boards and kits?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Cry baby Classic vs?

where could i find some of these replacement boards and kits?

Do an online search for wah kits. They're typically made for either Dunlop Crybaby or Vox 847 configurations (Dunlops have board-mounted jacks, Vox don't). You can swap out just the circuit board, or replace all the internals (with a prewired board, pot, & switch) which will be true bypass (some come with optional LED's). Joe Gagan (one of the wah wizards) sells several different kits on eBay; ask him which would be the best for what you want.