CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

[ItsaBass]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

What mechanical happenings would cause a stock pot to fail sooner than a CTS or Alpha pot?

"Cheap-ass" pots is what I said, not "stock" pots. Sometimes stock pots are not cheap-ass pots.

 

[trevorus]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

I'll believe it feels better, as in it spins more freely, but work better, I guess that's depends on your needs, and better tone, I doubt.

Actually, I like a tighter feel to the knob, as in it doesn't turn as easily. The construction of the potentiometer internals (to me) matters quite a bit. The wider the track, the closer in value to what I am looking for, etc. I think there is some clarity to be gained from a better pot.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

I had that problem with a PRS. I got some nylon washers from the hardware store. The ones I found were not an exact fit, so I got the proper OD and drilled out the ID to fit the shaft.


Sent from my armored battle station using Tapatalk

 

[DreX]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

"Cheap-ass" pots is what I said, not "stock" pots. Sometimes stock pots are not cheap-ass pots.

Sure, but "cheap ass" is a relative evaluation, so when people say the first mod they make on a guitar is to replace the pots, there's an implication that stock pots are generally also cheap ass.

 

[DreX]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

Actually, I like a tighter feel to the knob, as in it doesn't turn as easily. The construction of the potentiometer internals (to me) matters quite a bit. The wider the track, the closer in value to what I am looking for, etc. I think there is some clarity to be gained from a better pot.

My understanding is that easy to spin is regarded by most as good quality, because you can do easy pinky volume swells, among other things. I can see the graphite track being a better, purer material on the nice pots, but somehow I doubt they are any better, just because of the nature of cheap mass production and volume pricing. And as for sounding clearer, it would have to be somewhere other than 10 volume since 10 is metal on metal pass through, and the highs you lose in volume through resistance attenuation is a reality of electronic circuitry and not a quality issue, afaik.

 

[Stratman]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

There's usually no issues with your exposed wood.
If it makes you feel better, clear polish can seal it without good clamping.

Polishing his exposed wood, and he says it makes him feel better good clamping action...

Me - I know it’s better drilling with that exposed wood into a hot moist hole, and hopefully that hole has a nice clamping action...




Seriously, drill to holes to ⅜ inch and install CTS pots and be done with it.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

Personally, one of my first upgrades to a guitar is new, better pots. It makes the controls work better, tone better, and the feel better. It may not be something "wrong," but something that can be improved.

Wither or not CTS is "better" than Alpha is up for serious debate.

 

[ErikH]

CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

Please keep power tools away from your guitar. Use a rat tail file and spin it in the hole. Or a hole reamer. Just no power tools. You're asking for problems if you don't know what you're doing. And even if you do, power tools shouldn't be used for something like this anyway.

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

What mechanical happenings would cause a stock pot to fail sooner than a CTS or Alpha pot?

Check out the article on the LPF where two pots are dissected, one is a CGE-made Gibson pot that Gibson used for a few years (they had the Gibson logo on the pot case), the other is a CTS pot. This reveals how cheaply made the CGE pots were vs. CTS pots, the internals on the CGE pots have more plastic, and smaller wipers and generally cheaper construction. This article has been on the LPF since I started on here years ago, and I wonder how many people have ever read it?. Look on the main Forum home page and you'll find it. I am glad that CGE went out of the pot-making business, forcing Gibson to go back to CTS for their pots.

When I got my SG Classic, it had those CGE pots, and one went bad after only a few months of casual playing. I'm replacing them soon, probably will go with some Dimarzio custom taper CTS pots I bought some time back on that one, to try them out. There are many other pots around now that have custom tapers that are closer to the audio tapers of the vintage guitars (which were a different audio taper than what is used on most stock CTS and other modern pots), and many that have closer tolerances regarding value, so you won't get a 500k pot that actually measures something like 420k.

Al

 

[Hank-]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

Well I made the holes wider & drilled a new hole on the godin for another pot. Pots fit just fine. Can't notice any difference from before, the ohm value on the CTS pot for the volume control was higher than the stock one, so some change there. I don't find much difference in the taper between the two brands. If anything i have spare pots & can use either ones hence forth. The washer on the Alpha pot is large enough to hold the the pot in the new sized holes, they could have just drilled larger holes to begin with at the factory. Oh well.

Thanks people, still knobs are pending will cover that up this week.

EDIT: Okay it seems there is problem finding knobs to fit in these pots, so I ended up using pliers to reduce the compression on the top, that helped. The mark-up on gibson branded stuff is quite high in the stores. I ended up having to get a 4 set of knobs.

Anyways I wanted to share a video I found online that shows how the taper difference between alpha, bourns & cts linear & audio types differ in a random sample size http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdfIZEB2rdM. Basically when I opted for the CTS I wanted a different functioning taper than the stock alpha one for the volume especially. It seems the one in the PRS SE was exhibiting more of a linear behaviour, while the one in the Godin was more along the lines of an audio taper. Anyways after going back & forth between the two brands, yup there is a little difference in the taper behaviour, maybe its the overall resistance. I measured it but overall both were close enough with single digit variation in values. Anyways I happy with the new CTS ones.

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

One thing to understand is that there are different audio tapers, 10%, 30%, etc. (I'm not talking about the value tolerance, but the taper). Vintage guitars had an audio taper that is smoother than what most stock CTS and other audio pots have these days. This is why there are many new "custom taper" pots out now that try to replicate the audio taper used in those vintage pots. The stock CTS these days does just the opposite of what the linear volume pots in production Gibsons do, when using distortion especially. With the linears, you have to turn way down to around "2" on the pot to get any change in volume, then it quickly shuts off, making fast rhythm/lead changes tricky. The stock CTS does the opposite, all the change is in the last couple of settings (between 8-10), so you still don't have a smooth transition in volume. The vintage taper is much more gradual, making it easier to do slight differences in volume without fiddling with the pot so much. So, I think the best bet these days is to look for higher tolerance (5-10%) audio pots with more of a vintage taper, buying ones that are metered and selected to be close to stated value is even better, but more costly. Stock CTS have 20% tolerance, so your 500k pot can be as low as 400k, and as high as 600k, usually they are in the lower range. I think paying a little more for a custom taper pot with closer tolerance is worthwhile. There are many to choose from lately, some more expensive than others, and most of them are custom ordered to spec from CTS with the different taper and tolerance than CTS's stock audio pots.

Al

 

[Artie]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

Do NOT use a s DRill. You'll tear it to shreds.Unlss you are a skilled wood wroker with a drillpress, use a wood reamer. I'm an expert wood reamer!

This!

If you're going to mess with guitars, you should have a taper-reamer in your tool kit. The kind, where the big end, is exactly 3/8" is ideal. I'll look for the website where they sell them reasonable.

P.S. I believe it's called a "bridge" reamer.

 

[Hank-]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

^Already passed the widening stage :usa2:. Aluminum foil tape(didn't have any other at hand) & a big power drill got the job done no problem :smokin:. Actually i drilled a new hole with a regular drill bit, ended up much cleaner than widening the old ones :bigok:

One thing to understand is that there are different audio tapers, 10%, 30%, etc. (I'm not talking about the value tolerance, but the taper). Vintage guitars had an audio taper that is smoother than what most stock CTS and other audio pots have these days. This is why there are many new "custom taper" pots out now that try to replicate the audio taper used in those vintage pots. The stock CTS these days does just the opposite of what the linear volume pots in production Gibsons do, when using distortion especially. With the linears, you have to turn way down to around "2" on the pot to get any change in volume, then it quickly shuts off, making fast rhythm/lead changes tricky. The stock CTS does the opposite, all the change is in the last couple of settings (between 8-10), so you still don't have a smooth transition in volume. The vintage taper is much more gradual, making it easier to do slight differences in volume without fiddling with the pot so much. So, I think the best bet these days is to look for higher tolerance (5-10%) audio pots with more of a vintage taper, buying ones that are metered and selected to be close to stated value is even better, but more costly. Stock CTS have 20% tolerance, so your 500k pot can be as low as 400k, and as high as 600k, usually they are in the lower range. I think paying a little more for a custom taper pot with closer tolerance is worthwhile. There are many to choose from lately, some more expensive than others, and most of them are custom ordered to spec from CTS with the different taper and tolerance than CTS's stock audio pots.

Al

Yeah I got the part about taper behaviour being different or custom to desired needs I actually wanted a smoother taper, not talking about the circular movement of the pot being loose, but electrically wider like you said it is with some custom pots(not hyper active between 8-10 on the dial), but I think I prefer the narrow one now, these cts ones I have feel stiff so at the moment it's much more easier to not overshoot the turn with the pinky finger. The CTS ones I have are between 472k to 506k range. The only custom taper buying option I'm aware of is RS Guitarworks, but I've not dealt with them yet.

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

^Already passed the widening stage :usa2:. Aluminum foil tape(didn't have any other at hand) & a big power drill got the job done no problem :smokin:. Actually i drilled a new hole with a regular drill bit, ended up much cleaner than widening the old ones :bigok:


Yeah I got the part about taper behaviour being different or custom to desired needs I actually wanted a smoother taper, not talking about the circular movement of the pot being loose, but electrically wider like you said it is with some custom pots(not hyper active between 8-10 on the dial), but I think I prefer the narrow one now, these cts ones I have feel stiff so at the moment it's much more easier to not overshoot the turn with the pinky finger. The CTS ones I have are between 472k to 506k range. The only custom taper buying option I'm aware of is RS Guitarworks, but I've not dealt with them yet.

There are a few custom taper pots around these days, the RS Superpots are reportedly a combination of linear and audio, but there are the Dimarzio pots, which at this time are custom-taper CTS pots (the previous version was CGE just like Gibson was using), and the newer Gibson Historic CTS pots, both of these attempt to replicate the audio taper of the vintage pots in the older Gibson and other vintage guitars. There is another one called I think "True Vintage" taper pots, I can't remember who sells those pots. Another good custom vintage audio taper pot is made by Dr. Vintage (or "Dr. V"), a lot of the Les Paul guys like those. Also, on Ebay there are a couple of guitar parts stores that sell some custom ordered CTS pots that have brass shafts and bushings, a custom audio taper, and very close tolerances. I've seen others also that are custom taper and/or tolerance CTS, guitar parts suppliers can order CTS pots in many variations of tolerance, taper, and construction as long as they buy a large quantity of them. The nice thing about the Dimarzio's is that they are not as expensive as some of the other custom pots, only around $6 each, the ones I bought are within 10% of tolerance in value, some a little over and some a little over the stated value, but some guys have said they've gotten some that were not as close in value, so I guess i got lucky. At that price, I bought a few more than I really needed, then measured them and set aside the lower reading ones, and keeping the higher reading ones for my guitar. The "keepers" were all in the 480-510k range, which is close enough for me, I don't see the need for 500k pots that read upwards of 550k (like the RS Superpots, which are meant to be used for volume pots only, they also sell a close tolerance CTS pot that is meant for tone pots).

Al

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

What sucks is,once you do the damage you can't turn back...If you had a small round sanding dremel roller,you could slowly enlarge the holes..Using a drill is just always iffy! I've done it on guitar tuner holes,but scary on the body!

A hand reamer is the best bet. Its too easy to make the hole out of round with round files or dremel bits. Tape the area up on both sides. Work from both sides, slowly, just a little at a time. You won't be removing very much. I did this to my US Cu22 to replace the push/pull tone pot with a standard pot. Its at your own risk. If you are not 100% comfortable have a pro do it

 

[astrozombie]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

You just need to drill the guitar with 3/8 inch holes and get standard knobs.

I've had to drill out a couple of control plates myself.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: CTS pots aren't fitting as replacements for Alpha pots

Sure, but "cheap ass" is a relative evaluation, so when people say the first mod they make on a guitar is to replace the pots, there's an implication that stock pots are generally also cheap ass.

I did not make that statement or that implication.