Custom 5?

[fretburner]

Re: Custom 5?

My amp is a JTM60. But where I'm at, we don't usually bring our own amp in live gigs, so I usually end up plugging into a Valvestate or Bandit.

The website is saying it has lesser "highs" but "Clean sounds are rich and full with enhanced presence". How can it have enhanced presence when it has lesser highs? Presence equates to "brightness" right?

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Custom 5?

I agree with this guy.Luke Duke should be too.Thanks a lot guys,i was considering the a2p for a while anyway and i'm definately going to look into it more thoroughly now.Thanks a lot.

You're too kind!

Seriously, there are quite a few knowledgeable guys in here like LukeDuke and ArtieToo, and I tune into their posts in case they reveal some tricks I don't know.

You too!

Ever since Zhangliqun came I've had to improve my game, he keeps me on my toes!

As far as the more rare magnets (A3, and A4) I have no personal experience. I know that Gearjoneser had a one in a custom and MRID has it. From what I have read the A4 makes for a more pluckier sound. It's the strat players bucker I've read.

BTW Zhangliqun, what's wrong with buckshot in the morning?? :laugh2:

Luke

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Custom 5?

My amp is a JTM60. But where I'm at, we don't usually bring our own amp in live gigs, so I usually end up plugging into a Valvestate or Bandit.

The website is saying it has lesser "highs" but "Clean sounds are rich and full with enhanced presence". How can it have enhanced presence when it has lesser highs? Presence equates to "brightness" right?

Well you have to think about it like this. Just like on your amp the treble and presence are different knobs that is what SD is equating this to. The high frequencies that are barely, if at all, affected treble knob are the presence frequencies. It seems like someone told me that they are around 2000kHz.

Luke

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

You're too kind!


You too!

Ever since Zhangliqun came I've had to improve my game, he keeps me on my toes!

As far as the more rare magnets (A3, and A4) I have no personal experience. I know that Gearjoneser had a one in a custom and MRID has it. From what I have read the A4 makes for a more pluckier sound. It's the strat players bucker I've read.

BTW Zhangliqun, what's wrong with buckshot in the morning?? :laugh2:

Luke

I suppose there's no good time for buckshot in the caboose, but in the morning when you're just barely awake, the ol' joints aren't as loose and you can't run as fast to get away from the next salvo...

Anyway, here's a rough comparison chart for the Four Alnico Bros., at least according to my ear:

IN ORDER OF OUTPUT, scale of 1 to 10 (10 being most output)

Alnico 5 = 10
Alnico 4 = 7
Alnico 3 = 4.5
Alnico 2 = 5
(Ceramic = 13+)

TONE DESCRIPTION:

ALNICO 5 = Bass 8.5 -- Low Mid 5 -- Upper Mid 7 -- Treble 8
Kind of "scooped" as you can see. Plenty of upper mid grind but a little lacking in the low mids, depending on the wind of the pickup and the guitar itself.

ALNICO 4 = Bass 7 -- Low Mid 6 -- Upper Mid 6 -- Treble 7
A slight scoop in the mids, not really enough to even call it a scoop. Less output and less grind. I have a friend who thinks of Alnico 4 as kind of like "aged" Alnico 5. A pretty fair description.

ALNICO 3 = Bass 5 -- Low Mid 5.5 -- Upper Mid 4.5 -- Treble 5.5
To me, Alnico 3 is like Alnico 2 but with a slight boost in the bass and lower mids. The same friend calls A3 "aged" Alnico 2.

ALNICO 2 = Bass 4.5 -- Low Mid 5 -- Upper Mid 5 -- Treble 6
Slightly more overall output than A3 but thinner sounding. Very transparent, some even call it "syrupy sweet".

***

Keep in mind, this is not really scientific, just subjective, anecdotal...you get the idea.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Custom 5?

I suppose there's no good time for buckshot in the caboose, but in the morning when you're just barely awake, the ol' joints aren't as loose and you can't run as fast to get away from the next salvo...

:laugh2:

Anyway, here's a rough comparison chart for the Four Alnico Bros., at least according to my ear:

IN ORDER OF OUTPUT, scale of 1 to 10 (10 being most output)

Alnico 5 = 10
Alnico 4 = 7
Alnico 3 = 4.5
Alnico 2 = 5
(Ceramic = 13+)

TONE DESCRIPTION:

ALNICO 5 = Bass 8.5 -- Low Mid 5 -- Upper Mid 7 -- Treble 8
Kind of "scooped" as you can see. Plenty of upper mid grind but a little lacking in the low mids, depending on the wind of the pickup and the guitar itself.

ALNICO 4 = Bass 7 -- Low Mid 6 -- Upper Mid 6 -- Treble 7
A slight scoop in the mids, not really enough to even call it a scoop. Less output and less grind. I have a friend who thinks of Alnico 4 as kind of like "aged" Alnico 5. A pretty fair description.

ALNICO 3 = Bass 5 -- Low Mid 5.5 -- Upper Mid 4.5 -- Treble 5.5
To me, Alnico 3 is like Alnico 2 but with a slight boost in the bass and lower mids. The same friend calls A3 "aged" Alnico 2.

ALNICO 2 = Bass 4.5 -- Low Mid 5 -- Upper Mid 5 -- Treble 6
Slightly more overall output than A3 but thinner sounding. Very transparent, some even call it "syrupy sweet".

***

Keep in mind, this is not really scientific, just subjective, anecdotal...you get the idea.

Sounds like VAULT material!

I like the Alnico Bros, you should trademark it! :dance:

 

[MattPete]

Re: Custom 5?

I have to disagree with Zhangliqun a bit. Although I found found that an A4 had slightly more mids than an A5 (tried both in a PGn and CC), I found the A4 to be harsh and kinda brittle. It might work in a big all-mahogany guitar or perhaps with the right pickup wind.

As far as the a3 vs. A2, I find the A3 to have more bass *and* more highs than the A2. In addition, the peak of the mids is shifted slightly higher. So, something like this:

ALNICO 3 = Bass 5 -- Low Mid 4.5 -- Upper Mid 5.5 -- Treble 6.5
To me, Alnico 3 is like Alnico 2 but with a slight boost in the bass and treble.

ALNICO 2 = Bass 4.5 -- Low Mid 5 -- Upper Mid 5 -- Treble 6
Slightly more overall output than A3 but sometimes thinner sounding due to slightly less bass (the increased mids may make it sound slightly thicker than an A3 in the neck position). Very transparent, some even call it "syrupy sweet".

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Custom 5?

Sometimes, you just have to jump in with two feet, buy the pickup that seems most suited to your style and gear, then use the exchange policy if you feel you want to move in another direction. The only reason many of us know exactly how pickups sound is because we've gone through a few different ones in the same guitar. You might just have to do that for a year before stumbling on the model you like best.

I did that with all my humbucking guitars, and found I prefer C-5's, CC's, Seths, 59's, and Jazz's. The last 3....I like the bridges and necks. I've heard a lot more, but those are the humbuckers I think I'll stick with.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

I have to disagree with Zhangliqun a bit. Although I found found that an A4 had slightly more mids than an A5 (tried both in a PGn and CC), I found the A4 to be harsh and kinda brittle. It might work in a big all-mahogany guitar or perhaps with the right pickup wind.

We do disagree. Maybe it's because of different guitars or something but to me the Alnico 4 sounds anything but harsh or brittle. Very smooth to my ear.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Custom 5?

Yeah, I think the Alnico 4 Custom (homemade) is smooth, but very articulate and a little harder under the fingers than the C-5 or CC. If anyone wants to do a temporary swap of one of their pickups for my nickel covered C-4, I'd send it to you, if you have something I want.
JB Jr. Neck
Twangbanger
59B
Custom
Dimebucker

Possibly others?

 

[fretburner]

Re: Custom 5?

Well you have to think about it like this. Just like on your amp the treble and presence are different knobs that is what SD is equating this to. The high frequencies that are barely, if at all, affected treble knob are the presence frequencies. It seems like someone told me that they are around 2000kHz.

Luke

this is getting complicated. i just read my amp's manual again and it's telling me that the presence knob adjusts the "overall brightness" of the sound... which means that the lows, mids and highs would sound brighter if i roll it to the right... and yes, true enough, it did sound a lot brighter.

nwy, i guess i'll just ask this question:

you think that Custom 5 can do what a Custom will do as far as heavy, palm-muted, distorted, "chugga chugga" sound is concerened?

thanks!

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Custom 5?

It will sound great under heavy gain, but it wont have the aggressive edge the custom has.

Luke

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

this is getting complicated. i just read my amp's manual again and it's telling me that the presence knob adjusts the "overall brightness" of the sound... which means that the lows, mids and highs would sound brighter if i roll it to the right... and yes, true enough, it did sound a lot brighter.

nwy, i guess i'll just ask this question:

you think that Custom 5 can do what a Custom will do as far as heavy, palm-muted, distorted, "chugga chugga" sound is concerened?

thanks!

By definition, lows and mids cannot sound bright. Brightness is a strictly treble thing, in the high end of the audio frequency spectrum.

"Presence" is really just "upper treble", from about 7 or 8kHz on up. Treble, on an amp with a presence control, is from roughly 3kHz to the above 7 or 8kHz. On an amp without a presence control, the treble control handles both treble and "upper treble" (presence).

Depending on the guitar and amp, the Custom 5 should be able to give you pretty good chunk. There are pickups that will give you even more chunk (like the Invader) but there is a trade-off in the form of a loss of treble and presence, aka brightness. If you have a guitar/amp combo that's naturally got plenty of brightness and bite, you may want something heavier like the Invader. Otherwise, something like the Custom 5 or Distortion should do the trick.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Custom 5?

I guess then, the C5 would substitute well for the Custom.

Thanks!

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Custom 5?

I think that smilie is Frosty the Crackhead.

Anyway, it's possible that the Custom 5 may be a little bright for your guitar, HOWEVER... Let me run down a list of mods you can do with it (or any other pickup) to thicken up the tone a bit:

1) Lower the pole pieces. This will reduce the emphasis on the coil closest to the bridge, which picks up more treble than the slug coil does. Then raise the pickup by the same amount you lowered the pole pieces, possibly more if you have it set low in the pickup ring.

2) Change the magnet. The Custom 5 comes with an Alnico 5 magnet, hence the name. Putting in an Alnico 4 would smooth the EQ curve out a bit and give you a more vintage tone (an advantage since you want versatility), albeit with a lot more punch than a PAF-clone pickup. The downside is the average Alnico 4 isn't as strong a magnet and it won't give you quite as much output as an Alnico 5, a disadvantage if you have a non-master volume amp and you need to hit the front end of the amp as hard as possible. On the other hand, if you're like me and you get your overdrive from a pedal, it's not really an issue.

3) This will sound strange but pull the pole pieces out and grind about 1/8" off the bottom ends. At stock length, they spread the magnetic field well below the baseplate and dilute the field some. Shortening them concentrates the magnetic field more toward the strings and gives you extra beef without losing any top end sparkle. You don't have to even lose 1/8" to hear the difference. Even 1/16" is noticeable.

BUT BEFORE TRYING ANY OF THAT, you may find that the Custom 5 sounds just fine as is because it is a very versatile pickup -- so naturally, try it stock first.

First, Welcome!!
Second, this is some good info! l love the C5 and find it to be extremely versatile, toneful and sweet. It is also sensitive to height, take a bit of extra time and care to dial it in. This could be the diff tween loving it or hating it.
I have a C5 in a strat, RG570, and explorer. No overbearing highs. The only guitar there was any probs with is the Explorer. The lows were alittle muddy. I put an alnico 4 magnet in. The change kept the same basic voice and eq curve, but it shaves some of highs and lows off, Nothing rad, just alittle off of each end.
Let me know how it works out!

 

[fretburner]

Re: Custom 5?

First, Welcome!!
Second, this is some good info! l love the C5 and find it to be extremely versatile, toneful and sweet. It is also sensitive to height, take a bit of extra time and care to dial it in. This could be the diff tween loving it or hating it.
I have a C5 in a strat, RG570, and explorer. No overbearing highs. The only guitar there was any probs with is the Explorer. The lows were alittle muddy. I put an alnico 4 magnet in. The change kept the same basic voice and eq curve, but it shaves some of highs and lows off, Nothing rad, just alittle off of each end.
Let me know how it works out!

i hope it's not because the explorer has a mahogany body?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

I put an alnico 4 magnet in. The change kept the same basic voice and eq curve, but it shaves some of highs and lows off, Nothing rad, just alittle off of each end.

True.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Custom 5?

i hope it's not because the explorer has a mahogany body?

I think its that big ole slab of Mahogany leans towards the lows.. Made it alittle on the "flabby" side.. The C4 did just the trick..

:dance: This is the Stay Puft Marshmallow man

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Custom 5?

The C-5 sounds absolutely killer with mahogany bodies and especially EL-34 amps, because there's so much character in the mids with those factors. Since the C-5 is completely neutral in the mids, it allows the wood and amp to dictate it's tone.

I get the best heavy chunk out of my Bogner, using the C-5, and it retains it's vintage-ness on the high end. I just read that Scott Splawn, a known amp guru, has also made the C-5 his humbucker of choice.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Custom 5?

The C-5 sounds absolutely killer with mahogany bodies and especially EL-34 amps, because there's so much character in the mids with those factors. Since the C-5 is completely neutral in the mids, it allows the wood and amp to dictate it's tone.

I get the best heavy chunk out of my Bogner, using the C-5, and it retains it's vintage-ness on the high end. I just read that Scott Splawn, a known amp guru, has also made the C-5 his humbucker of choice.

Cool. I guess I'm gonna call that guy up who's selling his C5/A2P pups.