Dating Gibson T Top
- Thread starter Sam SG
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freefrog
Well-known member
If the coils have the regular black bobbins with a T, watch the baseplate. If it has a glued sticker with patent number, it's from the second half of the 60's to the mid 70's. If the patent number is stamped / engraved in the metal of the baseplate, it's from the second half of the 70's. The pic gets blury at the end of the 70's, where T-Top parts were used to build technically different humbuckers (with double thick ceramic magnets, plastic spacers, and/or the same kind of wire than in the incoming "Shaw" humbuckers).
I've seen my share of butchered / rebuilt T-Top's and some oddballs, too. The supposed "consistency" of T-Tops therefore appears to me as "discussible" (but it's true for most pickups models as soon as one dives deep in details, anyway).
FWIW. HTH.
I've seen my share of butchered / rebuilt T-Top's and some oddballs, too. The supposed "consistency" of T-Tops therefore appears to me as "discussible" (but it's true for most pickups models as soon as one dives deep in details, anyway).
FWIW. HTH.
hamerfan
Well-known member
- Second half of 1967 to 1975: Patent number pickups with poly wire and white and black leads, T-top bobbins, "patent no." sticker, no longer has hole in bobbin showing wire, orange wire, short magnet, screws on bottom of base are usually slotted but could be phillips too. "L" toolmark can be seen on early T-top pickups up to late 1972
- 1976 to 1979: Poly copper colored wire, standard long magnet. On the backplate besides the stamped Pat No there is a black rubber stamp with a date like ‚Jan. 15 1976‘
- early 1980 had a period of partly Shaw features and older T-Top parts, starting around June they are full Shaws like new shorter magnet, maroon tinted poly wire, plastic spacers and Shaw PAF bobbins.
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freefrog
Well-known member
I'm the first to appreciate precision but the lack of it in my first answer wasn't due only to my blury memories (even if, well, granted, it was due partly to that 
)...
Some testimonials state T-Top bobbins sooner than 1967. Some others say that inked dates did become an habit only at the very end of the 70's... (and as a matter of fact, I don't remember inked dates on the baseplates of a 3 PU LP Custom from 1976 that I've refreshed again recently).
That's for such reasons that I've commented the consistency of T-Tops as "supposed" and "discussible". ;-)
EDIT - Examples below - of stock pickups from the two T-Tops "eras" but with non typical features in both cases, for the record. ;-)
)...Some testimonials state T-Top bobbins sooner than 1967. Some others say that inked dates did become an habit only at the very end of the 70's... (and as a matter of fact, I don't remember inked dates on the baseplates of a 3 PU LP Custom from 1976 that I've refreshed again recently).
That's for such reasons that I've commented the consistency of T-Tops as "supposed" and "discussible". ;-)
EDIT - Examples below - of stock pickups from the two T-Tops "eras" but with non typical features in both cases, for the record. ;-)
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freefrog
Well-known member
Yes. And my old eyes have a hard time to decipher your lateral pic but it makes me wonder what is the magnet...
freefrog
Well-known member
Ok, thx for the information. Being a dad myself, I tend to see such parts inherited from the past as precious. ;-)
I was wondering about the magnet because of the color and texture as my old eyes see 'em. If you want to check if it's an alnico bar without extracting it from under the coils, set a multimeter to check DCR and put one probe on each side of the magnet. If it's an AlNi(Co) bar, it will be conductive and the meter will display a resistance. If the bar is not resistive, it's a ceramic magnet.
hamerfan
Well-known member
Looks black and matte like a ceramic, tests like a ceramic, then its maybe a standard sized ceramic magnet.
In the years before Mr. Shaw came to Gibson (´78 til ‘80) Gibson did a lot of variationson the T-Top bobbin basis without notice. Only the Dirty Fingers (double screws, thick ceramic magnet) and the Standard Humbucker aka T-Top survived.
Read here: https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/late-78-81-t-tops-are-they-different-and-how-do-they-sound.484077/
In the years before Mr. Shaw came to Gibson (´78 til ‘80) Gibson did a lot of variationson the T-Top bobbin basis without notice. Only the Dirty Fingers (double screws, thick ceramic magnet) and the Standard Humbucker aka T-Top survived.
Read here: https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/late-78-81-t-tops-are-they-different-and-how-do-they-sound.484077/
freefrog
Well-known member
Well, it might be a ceramic bar, then. Not necessarily a bad thing - but I'm not sure of my own feelings about that in this case: it might just be time for me to change my glasses... So, don't hesitate to double check the DCR measurement by varying the range of the multimeter.
freefrog
Well-known member
It's for people that I do efforts to help online, personally. Not for pickups.
That said and to come back on topic...
-one of the best neck humbuckers I've played was a Patent Number in a SG (and Seymour did something with the T-Top recipe, since the SH2/Jazz is largely a "Duncan improved" version of T-Top's. I've already shared about that here: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/thr...utes-to-gibson-patent-sticker-t-tops.6255977/ ).
-among the Gibson guitars that I have / had at disposal, my Flying V with T-Tops is an absolute rock machine. The T-Top loaded LP Custom that I played in the 80s was less exciting, albeit decent: it was more a neutral sonic tool, that I could use for anything from hard rock to country or Jazz runs. Which means that like any passive pickup, T-Tops shine in some instruments and less in others. How surprising!
I stand on the idea that any guitar is waiting its optimal pickup(s) and conversely. In some cases, stock pickups are the optimal ones. It's not that frequent. So, trying various associations is worth the effort IME/IMO. Mileages may vary.
That said and to come back on topic...
-one of the best neck humbuckers I've played was a Patent Number in a SG (and Seymour did something with the T-Top recipe, since the SH2/Jazz is largely a "Duncan improved" version of T-Top's. I've already shared about that here: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/thr...utes-to-gibson-patent-sticker-t-tops.6255977/ ).
-among the Gibson guitars that I have / had at disposal, my Flying V with T-Tops is an absolute rock machine. The T-Top loaded LP Custom that I played in the 80s was less exciting, albeit decent: it was more a neutral sonic tool, that I could use for anything from hard rock to country or Jazz runs. Which means that like any passive pickup, T-Tops shine in some instruments and less in others. How surprising!
I stand on the idea that any guitar is waiting its optimal pickup(s) and conversely. In some cases, stock pickups are the optimal ones. It's not that frequent. So, trying various associations is worth the effort IME/IMO. Mileages may vary.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
It's for people that I do efforts to help online, personally. Not for pickups.
That said and to come back on topic...
-one of the best neck humbuckers I've played was a Patent Number in a SG (and Seymour did something with the T-Top recipe, since the SH2/Jazz is largely a "Duncan improved" version of T-Top's. I've already shared about that here: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/thr...utes-to-gibson-patent-sticker-t-tops.6255977/ ).
-among the Gibson guitars that I have / had at disposal, my Flying V with T-Tops is an absolute rock machine. The T-Top loaded LP Custom that I played in the 80s was less exciting, albeit decent: it was more a neutral sonic tool, that I could use for anything from hard rock to country or Jazz runs. Which means that like any passive pickup, T-Tops shine in some instruments and less in others. How surprising!
I stand on the idea that any guitar is waiting its optimal pickup(s) and conversely. In some cases, stock pickups are the optimal ones. It's not that frequent. So, trying various associations is worth the effort IME/IMO. Mileages may vary.
I have long said a Jazz is the pickup that a T-Top wants to be, but isn;t. (Also say a C5 is the pup a 498 wants to be...)
For the record, I have a T-top in the neck of my #1 79 LP Standard - and it is never coming out.
I also have two in a Gibson The Paul (1979). They will be leaving eventually.
And yeah - I could play whatever with them. But there is so much better for anything I'd want to play.
#1 LP - T-top/Distortion
#2 Ace Frehley - One working Super D
#3 DiMarzio PAF / Super D
#4 PG set (Custom shop 9k in bridge)
#5 Duncan P90's (but I'd have left Gibsons - this had P100s)
#6 The Paul with an eventually got T-top set.
freefrog
Well-known member
As much as I like the SH2 (I've currently a neck one in an Explorer) and albeit I've found it almost as good sounding in a Godin LGTX than the neck PU of the SG aforementioned, I still prefer late 60's Patent Number T-Tops... Only my LP number one with P.A.F. clones made of NOS parts has a neck PU with similar qualities: tight bass range and low mids but a bump around 500hz still giving it some beef... Very few contemporary pickups (boutique brands included) appear to me as able to reproduce this tonal profile of pre-1974 Gibson HB's when they happen to sound transparent AND warm, bright AND muscular. Even the boutique set in my semi-hollow had to be modified to get closer. And another boutique "P.A.F." set tried in my LP number 2 is for the moment on the shelf as still missing the mark despite of multiple other mods.
I'm less fond of later T-Tops: if I had to chose a Gibson model from the late 70s/early 80s, it would be a Shaw. But from the same era, I'd favor one of my early Duncan SH1's (with butyrate bobbins and dark blueish rough cast magnets)...
FWIW : another useless rambling of a Sunday morning.
I'm less fond of later T-Tops: if I had to chose a Gibson model from the late 70s/early 80s, it would be a Shaw. But from the same era, I'd favor one of my early Duncan SH1's (with butyrate bobbins and dark blueish rough cast magnets)...
FWIW : another useless rambling of a Sunday morning.
While I have a couple of T-Tops and like them, I find they lack the boomy bottom end of SD pickups.
I also kinda go with the thought that if T-Tops were so great (and I suppose one could also include PAFs or Pat # pickups in this argument too) then our guitar heroes who are tone moguls such as Gibbons, Perry, Whitford, Slash, etc would be finding and buying them and installing them in their guitars.
But they’re not. They’re using pickups from today’s era.
I also kinda go with the thought that if T-Tops were so great (and I suppose one could also include PAFs or Pat # pickups in this argument too) then our guitar heroes who are tone moguls such as Gibbons, Perry, Whitford, Slash, etc would be finding and buying them and installing them in their guitars.
But they’re not. They’re using pickups from today’s era.
