DBZ/Dean/Washburn

[Inflames626]

As a somewhat new guy and relatively infrequent poster, I was flattered at the amount of attention (for my posts) that my Schecter post got. I thought I would move on to another few brands that seem to polarize people--Dean/DBZ and their rival, Washburn.

A few of my observations and opinions on Dean:

1) Dean's popularity seems to have arisen almost entirely from Dimebag Darrell, although to my understanding they were popular in the late 70s-early 80s before he made them a household name in the 90s. I seem to remember seeing Shawn Lane using them in footage dating back to the late 70s, although I may be wrong.

2) Some people say they're great. Others say they're junk. I think their top end stuff is nice (some of the Mustaine stuff looks nice and feels sturdy), but their low end stuff seems to put them in Line 6 Spyder territory. It doesn't help that they have spun off cheap imported gear under the Dime brand.

3) I consider most of their designs kind of tacky/cheesy looking. This includes the popular ML design.

On DBZ:

These are new guys apparently once affiliated with Dean Zelinsky, founder of Dean, and co-founded by Jeff Diamant of Diamond. Similar to Schecter, they seem to have some stylish, innovative designs. I like the looks of them better than Dean, and used they seem to command fair prices for the working musician. I've never played one.

Washburn:

1) Real workhorses for a decent price used. I've played 7 string string thru body versions, and they seem really solid, often for just a couple hundred dollars. Their acoustics and their affiliated brand, Oscar Schmidt, seem like staples in the lower priced acoustic category. I don't mind some of their sleeker Strat style designs for shredding.

2) It seems like over the past few years their reputation has suffered as, like Dean, they've aggressively pursued the low end of the import market.

3) Here in the South back in the 90s a lot of folks used U.S. Music Corporation brands (Washburn, Randall) as alternatives to Crate and Peavey. Doubtless this was also influenced by Pantera, Crowbar, Down, and others, as that sound has never really left this area (unfortunately).

Opinions appreciated.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

Matter of fact, this is the exact Washburn 7 I played, even to the color, although it's a tune-o-matic and not a string thru (my memory was mistaken).

Very solid axe for something to just riff on.

http://www.musicgoround.com/p/364945/used-washburn-wg587-electric-guitar

 

[Aceman]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

I have a few Deans. They definitely run the range. Overall, same as any important. Sturdy basic guitar. No doubt their lowest end is junk.

Dime is wayyy over marketed by them. Still, decent guitar for the price.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

Dime is overmarketed by them, or, God rest his soul, Dime markets them? I'd opt for the later. They need him more than his estate needs them.

 

[Zado]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

Never been very impressed by any Deans I've tried,though I never put my hands on a USA model. The only ne that had potential to be a great instrument was a razorback explosion,but the neck was atrocious for my taste,an enormous V (and I hate V necks)

Never played DBZ,but some of them look spectacular on pics...I just can't understand why they named some of their models so ridiculously... "Cavallo" (horse),"Bachetta" (little boat):thumbsdow maybe Zelinsky is really into italian language,considering half of his new omonimous brand models are named after italian words ("Tagliare"- to cut," "La Voce"- the voice,"StrettaVita"- narrow waist -->particularly loved by women),but he could have chosen better ones...

Washburn guitars have always been very reliable,I like them.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

I thought Dean's always had a nice look but the ones I've played all had tuning issues. However, I haven't played any high end ones so it was probably just poor QC on cheap gear.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

Deans were kind of hit and miss. I've got two very good import Hardtails. One is fantastic actually (better than a USA I had). Also an excellent Evo Special (also have a beat up but good playing FT). I've got a couple others that are decent enough players but not my thing. I had the advantage of having a friend who was a pretty big Dean dealer and would cull the goodies. I got most of mine that way and they had some work (frets, nut). I have, probably, 3 that will be with me until I leave this earth.

 

[Gstring]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

The Korean made Tobacco Sunburst Washburn Idol 166PRO with the SD pups is an amazing guitar. Cool looks, beautiful build,fantastic playability and a really great sound though many do not like the VCC system. I do. D o not know why they stopped making them. I have been looking out for a second hand one for about 4 years but they are hard to find.. I do have a chinese made Washburn HB 35 ,purchased second hand in the US for $425. It came with upgraded pups. SDs Alnico2 Pro ..the original version not the Slash ones. This guitar sounds fantastic,even thru acheap amp and is a joy to play and can easily compete with much more expensive other semi hollow bodies. I have only ever once played one Dean.. This was a small hollowbody called I think the Saratosa . A very cute guitar . .

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

My import Deans have served me well.
Still have 2(Caddy/ML),but the 2 79 Series I traded(V/Z) were pretty solid guitars,although the V sounded considerably better.
Great necks on teh 79s!!!

 

[BTMN]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

Bunch of Deans around here. USA Rawk. Upper line Korean imports are good stuff too. :headbang:

 

[vinta9e]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

Korean Deans vary. I did some minor fretwork on an V79 that surpassed all expectation. I made jokes about it being cheesy and unwieldy but shut up the moment I actually played it. Even the funny forked headstock grew on me because how do you even argue with a great guitar?

Later, in came a VMNT that had a bad neck joint and was unusable in a musical context. Should have left the factory through the chimney, really.

Then, I've seen a whole bunch of MLs that were each quite different but all solid players.

Washburn likes to make them look slightly goofy but it's just purposeful eye trolling, they know how to make quality guitars. Often far better than the first glance would lead you to believe.

Tacky, cheesy, goofy... sure, so what? It's all good and welcome in rock & roll.
Tell me you don't have a strong association between Dimebag or Nuno Bettencourt with their signature fiddles? Tell me you can beat Buddy Blaze at guitar design. Or the guys at BC Rich. Heaps of keyboard warriors trash talk them over and over but not one of them, ever, designs anything, much less of remotely comparable boldness. Radical and polarizing, betcha. But keep in mind every time you're closing yourself in this box called taste, you're missing out on an experience.

DBZ, have to give it to them, know how to make their stuff look original, which actually is much more difficult than it may seem at first. I am not a fan of the looks but I used to say the same about Knaggs until the time I played a real one. I'll try one given an opportunity, even if it looks like a bleeding whale cornhole.

But maybe you want to know about quality? Actually, there are a few factories in Korea who've been competing in the business of making guitars for years. Their contractees included the owners of Dean, DBZ, ESP LTD, Epiphone, Fender, Schecter, BC Rich and now Chapman guitar brands. They've got a lot of experience under their belts and deliver solid workhorse instruments on the regular. Sometimes worse, sometimes better, really.

 

[OsvyRock]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

Got an Original DBZ Bolero. Swapped the pickups for a Duncan Custom and 59' neck; and the guitars beats my two Gibson Guitars. It's my best guitar of them all. Tremendous action. Buy a DBZ and swap pickups or buy it prepared as a Diamond Guitars model. You won't regret it!

 

[Inflames626]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

vinta9e, great, eloquent post.

As a kid of 80s hair metal and a fan of 90s death metal, I love all things with points. That said, it can go a bit overboard.

Jackson Kellys are my main thing (I own four), but I'd probably consider the old style ESP Het Explorers to be the perfect metal guitar. I also own some BC Richs, ESPs, and so on. My favorite guitar would probably be a Lado Earth guitar like Adrian Smith used on the Powerslave tour. I wish I had the scratch to own one. I also like the Carvin VL220s.

I love points and offset guitars, but they need to be sleek and the lines need to flow. Some of the more exotic BCs and Deans like the ML come to the point of looking dangerously unbalanced. Jackson Warriors also come across like this (I'd much rather they make an import mass production Roswell Rhoades than a Warrior line).

The thing with the MLs is that they are so closely associated with Dime that I have a hard time enjoying them. I really liked Dime and his style, although I found him a bit overrated during his later work from about 94 on. I'd much rather learn his intricate Cowboys era playing.

A lot of it too is these designs are associated with the Pantera/Lamb of God/Hatebreed fan base, which some of us consider the unwashed masses/proletariat of heavy metal, mostly because these guys rarely seem curious about finding less commercial, more musically sophisticated music. It can go the other way, too. Opeth and Cynic fans and kvlt black metal elitists are the worst offenders.

As far as why MLs scream Dime but Les Pauls don't scream Slash I'm not sure. It's probably because so many people have used LP and Strat designs. If more people use MLs, maybe they'll seem less confining. It might have been heavy metal guitarist Tom Hess who advocated against using designs like an ML if one wanted to be original because a big chunk of listeners might stereotype your sound based on looks. In the case of the ML, it stuck with me.

I've noticed Korean made instruments coming up in recent years, especially Galveston extended range basses (the first time I ever saw a seven string bass was on EBay, and it was an MIK Galveston). In fact, I'd say brand no longer matters, but the country of origin in terms of factories does.

India now seems to be the low end, which surprises me due to their ease of production made easier by the common use of English in that country. I have a $200 Jackson Dinky from there, but, other than the cheap hardware, I don't notice a big quality problem. This is different from a lawsuit era MIK Global/Lotus P bass I have, which probably dates from the late 70s. Even with the truss rod cranked out fully, the action on that bass is like a slide guitar.

Amazing what changes occur over a few decades.

 

[formula73]

Re: DBZ/Dean/Washburn

Dean ran Dime's name into the GROUND and now, they're paying for it. Most people that slam Deans, however, have never played an original late 70s/early 80s (or any other USA they've ever made, for that matter) and only know either the import Dime line with inane graphics/words (Dimebonics comes to mind) OR the utter refuse they put out during the early 90s when they had misshapen Samick MLs and and some really odd-looking superstrats, all with pure garbage hardware and electronics. My priorities have shifted a bit since I had a kid but every time I think of any of the US Deans I've had to sell, I feel regret.

If it weren't for Dime, Washburn never would have enjoyed the surge in popularity they did from the mid 90s through early 2000s. Fan or not, the guy was a PHENOMENON. In a time of Eve6, Toad the Wet Sprocket, and other...crap...Pantera nearly singlehandedly held the metal scene together for over a decade. Metallica made Load/Reload (barf) Megadeth did Risk (barf) and imho, neither ever really recovered. Back on topic, he was such a huge deal Washy sold buttloads of crappy, misshapen Dime 333s and 332s, despite the fact that they shared next to nothing with the (fantastic) US Dime 3 aside from the name. At least the import setneck Deans have the right neck joint.

DBZ...

I don't know much about DBZ except having met Mr. Zelinsky a few times, I can say he's...abrasive. REALLY abrasive. I read their 'parting ways' press release as 'Dean got fired from his own startup company', kinda the same way he got fired from Dean in the mid 2000s, except they basically just hired him on to sit in ad pics when they released the Time Capsule series. That said, I REALLY want a DBZ Royale. That thing's just got 'ME' written all over it.

As far as the earlier statement about Dime's work post 1994, I think he lost his hunger and as Phil circled the drain, his influence became less and less and the band tried to soldier on for a while to keep getting a paycheck, even after coherent song ideas ran out. Remember, before Phil, Pantera was a glam band, and not even a very good one. I think Phil brought the edge to the band that it never had with Terry Glaze and that helped them create their sound.

Either that, or Exhorder.

Anyway, I'm a Dime fan but the man himself had let his image go from a tshirt and shorts guitarist who always had a good time to a pro wrestler-type persona who never took off his aviators and ended every statement with "GETCHA PULL OFF THAT ****!"

"WHISKY WEED WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!"

I hoped someday he'd have kicked the booze and gotten back some credibility but that never came to pass, and that's sad. I think he still had a lot in him. Anyway, yeah, back to your regularly scheduled lurking.