Define "Direct Mount"

[Silence Kid]

Is it still "Direct Mount" if there's tubing/foam/springs holding the pickup above the body? Or should a true direct mount be screwed direct to the wood (or at the very least, be placed on one of those metal/brass spacer things?)

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I say it's the pickup screwed into the wood, but you can have foam under it the way many bass pickups are mounted.

In my experience it doesn't really effect the tone, but having the pickup mounted on wobbly springs on a mounting ring isn't a good way of doing it.


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[devastone]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

Yes. If a guitar is designed for "direct mount" like a Music Man Axis, then the cavities are routed to the correct depth to screw the pickup feet directly to the wood, of course, if you change pickups or want to change the height of the existing pickups, you have to use foam or something. A lot of other guitars that I've seen/owned that have "direct mount" pickups use foam or springs to set the height of the pickups. I have also used the PMS system you mention, I got one from Mike Learn who lives a few miles from me, it works really well and does give an adjustable direct mount solution that I think is much better than foam for giving more "hard contact" between the pickup and the wood of the body. I personally like the no pickup ring look better on super strat type guitars.

 

[daenius]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

Second that. I have a Music Man JP and it's direct mount. The pickup is bolted directly on to the wood with NO room for adjustments whatsoever. That's what I would consider true direct mount.

Foam and springs underneath instead of a top mounting ring... eh... I think it's mostly just cosmetic. I can't tell any difference in sound at all, and most certainly can't tell when jamming with the band.

As for true direct mount, you sacrifice the ability to adjust/reconfigure for absolute toughness. No need to worry about the pickup tilting in the wrong angel because of the spring and foam... no need to worry about adjusting it given that you've measured it to your desired height perfectly and mounted it... no need to worry about the pickup sinking in after a while because the foam wore out... Oh and it's not gonna shake or move when you touch the pickup with your pick. All of that is very nice of course, but if you ever want to adjust the height or change a pickup, you're screwed, LOL

 

[dave74]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I'll say it loud and proud; Carvin's bezel-mount system is the best. Exact adjustment of height and angle with no chance of wiggle (even if you're someone who anchors their pinky on the bottom). And only then can you actually make really precise pole adjustments.

True direct mount would only work with a specific pickup, string-gauges/tensions, and action preference. Change any of those things and it won't be set "right" anymore.

That said I have one true direct mount and it just sings like crazy, so I am now a believer in the tonal enhancement of true direct-mount.
It was pure luck that it worked out as such.

I'd stuck some thin foam under the x2n going into my rg2550 but ended up screwing all the way down until the legs were tight onto the wood,,,and by pure luck that's right where the notes became clear and sharp without any bad overtones.

Any bit less routing depth or any bit lower preferred-action and I'd have completely wasted my time on the whole project.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

Geez-um. If mounting into the body with screws through a spring or tubing, or using foam underneath the pickup, doesn't count as direct mount, then what should it be called? Indirect mount? decoupled direct mount? Psuedo direct mount? Hybrid direct mount? Adjustable direct mount? How about adjustable indirect mount?

Maybe mounting with a ring or pickguard should be Type 1. Into the body with spring, tubing or foam = Type 2. Then screwing into the body with no adjustability can = Type 3.

What if, instead of using a spring, tubing or foam, a wooden spacer is used. Custom thickness to adjust height. Would that then count as direct mount? Or, maybe that should be called partially coupled direct mount, or pretty much coupled direct mount. Or, Type 2B.

Or, maybe "true" direct mount should just be called stupid since you lose height adjustment. But, of course, the manufacturer of the guitar and pickup could call it "proprietary" and use it as a marketing tactic. This is a good industry for it ...

ps. Please take the above with the several grains of sarcasm that, I think, are obviously included.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

Eh, if I were a complete tonal nut, i'd replace the foam/spring with exact measured piece of body wood glued in there. Perfection I tell you is what that would be. utahere:

 

[Mincer]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I'd agree with what was said here. I have to say, I've seen beautiful tops ruined by the presence of plastic mounting rings. Tradition is a hard thing to shake.

 

[dave74]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I'd agree with what was said here. I have to say, I've seen beautiful tops ruined by the presence of plastic mounting rings. Tradition is a hard thing to shake.

On those purty-lookn topped guitars I'd have to go with some nice matching wooden rings.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

Some of us really like pickup rings! I even put them on guitars with pickguards. A guitar with humbuckers and no rings always looks like it is missing parts to me, like a nice classic car without its wheelcovers.

 

[daenius]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I do have to say, though, that if you have a 24 fret H-S-H guitar, I like the direct mount's look a lot better. Yeah you lose the adjustment ability. True direct mount = completely can't adjust. Even if you just springs and foams... it's not quite as good as ring mount... BUT!

It does make the center area look less "crowded and cluttered" 24 fret neck forces the pickups to be placed closer to each other because of the neck pickup re-position, which then also forces the middle pickup closer to the bridge. In a guitar like that, you add pickup rings and now it looks like there's just way too much going on in the middle.

Example?

Ring Mount: http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/jackson-dx2-dinky-191878.jpg

Direct Mount: http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/...n Angel Ginger Burst DG2496 2_zpsvxe1a8ou.jpg

Subtle differences, but just a little bit of extra wood showing helps clear up the look of the center for me.

 

[dave74]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

Some of us really like pickup rings! I even put them on guitars with pickguards. A guitar with humbuckers and no rings always looks like it is missing parts to me, like a nice classic car without its wheelcovers.

Cosmetically I do prefer rings on about all superstrat 6-string renditions (excluding a H-S-H). On 6-string V-shapes it kind of depends on the model.

On shapes more like an esp horizon or frx I think "direct-mount" looks better, but I'd still want deeper than needed routes so dense foam can be added and the heights can be adjusted. (ain't going to sound it's best if you cain't tweak the pickups, especially with rail models where you have no pole-play)

 

[Mincer]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I can't think of one instance where I think rings look better. I like the idea of wooden rings (and $10k Gibson archtops still have plastic ones), but I'd rather no rings at all, and just show off the top.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I have a great method for doing direct mounted pups with easy screw height adjustment. :beerchug: I will win a gold medal for that idea one day it just hasn't taken off yet.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I agree that humbuckers look naked in pickguards without rings, it's more a matter of the gaps around the edges... The design of a Lace Dually where the pickguard is cropped against the pickup is much more attractive. I was actually thinking about trying direct mount on my Soloist but leaving the rings in place above the pickup for aesthetics (and just because I'd prefer the ring holes to be covered anyway.

I'm intrigued by the FU-tone metal mount things, in YouTube videos the diff. is pretty staggering...

 

[Ascension]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

All my USA Washburn MG series guitars from the 1990's are direct mount. They use a brass insert screwed into the wood then a machine screw. Under the pickup is a hand cut piece if a very dense foam and then they use rubber tubing at the screws to provide adjustablity. Works like a charm sounds GREAT is rock solid and looks really good.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

Yeah a few companies make brass plates for under the pickup, so you can use machine screws to adjust height. I never did that- I just used foam. But it is a good idea.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

I'll say it loud and proud; Carvin's bezel-mount system is the best. Exact adjustment of height and angle with no chance of wiggle (even if you're someone who anchors their pinky on the bottom). And only then can you actually make really precise pole adjustments..

I think ALL pickup and guitar makers should use 3 or 4 mounting screws the way Carvin and Schaller do. It's annoying that everyone just copies a 50 year old design that isn't even the best way of doing it. Especially with the long legs/springs. You get a lot of wobble and can't tilt the pickup to be parallel to the strings.

Most bass pickups that are direct mount allow for adjusting the tilt of the pickup.


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[Mincer]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

Tradition is a hard habit to kick. The big 2 guitar companies are built on tradition. The whole of guitar business is built on tradition. Never mind that there might be a better way.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Define "Direct Mount"

The best direct mount I've done is to measure the height of the pickup to determine the thickness of a shim needed, make a shim to that thickness out of hardwood, screw the shim to the body, and then screw the pickup to the shim, allowing the shim to have direct , full contact with the entire base of the pickup. This way the vibration from the body makes its way to the bottom of the pickup, and picks up the added resonance. Very easy to do with EMG pickups