Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

ExplorersRock

ExplorersRock

X-Files Duckbucker
So I was peaking around Warmoth's website and I noticed that on the carved top guitars, they now say "Double Lam Top Required" when you get to the step where you choose your wood. They have a notice on the page that states:
Double Laminate Tops

DL Tops are made from two pieces of wood: a figured 1/16" thick top-laminate and a non-figured sub-laminate. Together they are ¾" thick. In the selections above the wood before the slash is the figured top laminate (the wood that will show). The wood after the slash is the sub-laminate (the wood that will not show).
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Being the curious guy I am, I called up Warmoth and asked, "What's up with this? Is this recent?" The rep was very straightforward and stated that this has only been going on for a few months and it is a way of keeping costs down because the cost of exotic woods continues to rise. Also, using a thinner figure laminate allows them to do some interesting stuff with some of the carved tops that they couldn't do before. We chatted a bit more and they are interested in keeping the tone, but with regards to the figure, you can't see it under the paint or binding so saving money by going with the veneer seemed to make sense.

I'll admit, part of me wants to start going, "but, but, but..." However, I gotta admit that I see the point, and since they are being upfront and honest about it, I have no objections. If they weren't admitting it or were not offering a 3/4" total maple cap, I would not be pleased. But I think this is a reasonable way to allow us enthusiasts (a.k.a. nerds) that want to build our own to do so without going broke. But what do you guys think?
 
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Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

Just like you I'm ok with it as lon as they are not deceiving people...
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

I think it's reasonable and they are being honest by stating it from the start.
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

I don't have a problem with it (especially since I like plain tops anyhow), though I don't know how much cheaper it will really be, as they now have to pay for the man hours required to laminate the tops.
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

I agree--I have no problem with it especially since they are being honest about it.
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

Not to sound like a broken record, but-
record, but-
record, but-
record, but-
record, but-
record, but-

Yeah I'm ok with it.
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

I think its actuall a great idea. Imagine if you absolutely had to have a figured top, but preferred the sound a mahogany cap. In theory, you could get the best of both worlds.
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

Hey, if it works, why not. Honesty carries a lot of weight with me.
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

I don't think it's really that recent of a development. I noticed that a year or so ago before they had to temporarily take the LP style bodies off the website while they dealt with Gibson on them.

I just always figured it was a standard procedure for them given the way their bodies are cut on the CNC.

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Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

I'm cool with that. it's not like they are charging $3,000. If the guitar looks good to you, and sounds good to you, it IS good. Veneers are fine.

Where I don't like veneers is on some epiphones, where it becomes an issue of "what's under the veneer?". But that's another thread.
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

What's gluing do to the resonance? Something like a plywood guitar? Is it grain to grain or crossgrain?
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

Sometimes I dont get this place... So if Warmoth does veneers and says its cool the tone is the same people are on board... but if other companies do it people scream bloody murder and cry how they are cheapening things...

Sure warmoth doesnt charge a fortune but then again their stuff for what it is really isnt that cheap and now instead of getting a premium top you are getting a laminate and i havent checked but i get the sneaky feeling the price is the same if not more.
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

Edgecrusher said:
Sometimes I dont get this place... So if Warmoth does veneers and says its cool the tone is the same people are on board... but if other companies do it people scream bloody murder and cry how they are cheapening things...

Sure warmoth doesnt charge a fortune but then again their stuff for what it is really isnt that cheap and now instead of getting a premium top you are getting a laminate and i havent checked but i get the sneaky feeling the price is the same if not more.
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I think people look to Gibson to be the vanguard of the old Les Paul design, cuz... they came out with it. A Les Paul to many people is a special formula of materials, designs, looks, and craftsmanship. So in Gibson's case, naturally a veneer seems like cheaping out because the original Les Pauls don't have a veneer, they've made them for years without veneers, and that's what people expect and it's what they want. They don't want to mess with the formula and to that effect people still whine about stuff on the Historic line.

It might be silly but here goes. A warmoth is NOT a les paul, it's in the style of one. A lot of people get a warmoth so they can get customized options, not so they can knock off a les paul for cheap (maybe some do, I dunno). It's often people who aren't satisfied by Gibson's offerings. A bunch of the people who are gonna pay warmoth for custom stuff realize it's not a real Les Paul. It's not a collector's item or an investment, they aren't buying into the brand name or the classic recipe, they are buying a tool. As a tool it's a means to an end, and so if a veneer doesn't change the tone but still looks good, then that's more likely to sit well with those kinds of people I described.

Gibson fans= the original recipe is what we want. don't **** with it.
Warmoth fans= make me a good guitar with X, Y, and Z without me having to go custom shop. Yeah and make it resemble a paul.

Gibson the company's strategy (from my POV)=lets use full thickness figured tops and pass the majority of increasing costs on to our buyers, and throw a zero fret and some electonic tuners on it and charge em again. But we used thicker gauge wire when we wired it.
Warmoth=lets use some kick ass veneers and pass some of the cost of retooling and retraining on to our customers but let's not get out of the reach of hobbyist musicians while still making a profit cuz that's what we're here for. It's not a guitar-building charity. If you want a dang les paul and you're not OK with veneers, go buy the original.

Is the veneer cheaping out? Yeah. But Warmoth are up front about it, and they explain themselves.
 
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Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

FuseG4 said:
Is the veneer cheaping out? Yeah
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I didnt say Gibson... but at the end of your whole diatribe you still managed to see the problem. Are the veneers cheaper? Nope Your getting less for more... Now lets all cheer for warmoth!
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

Edgecrusher said:
I didnt say Gibson... but at the end of your whole diatribe you still managed to see the problem. Are the veneers cheaper? Nope Your getting less for more... Now lets all cheer for warmoth!
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I guess all I wanted to say is I think the veneer thing is not that great but it's not that bad.
BTW since I missed something, so which companies are people screaming bloody murder at for laminating?
 
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Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

Does anyone know what warmoth were charging before? A lp body with flame maple laminate over maple, over a mahogany back starts at 430$. So does anyone know what they used to charge for 3/4" flame maple over mahogany?
 
Re: Did Anybody Else See What Warmoth is Doing?

People also shouldn't forget that flat top such as on most Superstrats, Music Man guitars and the like are always veneer thin.

Can't say I am a real fan since there is more opportunity for things to become undone, for different pieces to expand differently later and for another layer that possibly dampens on top of the carved piece.

Would be interesting to play one of those with just the carved layer and then separately when the veneer is on. Warmoth is not gonna let you do it, though.
 
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