Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

ErikH said:
I really like humbuckers in that 9-10k range. Aside from the Brobucker, the Gibson '57 Classic Plus is another favorite of mine. Hot enough to punch through and cleans up really well with the volume knob.

I wouldn't say that 10k is the magic be-all-end-all design because that is going to be different for everybody. That's why there's so many choices out there.
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+1. It's a nice option to have; no one's expecting it to take the place of everything else. SD needs a few medium output HB's in their standard production line. The middle ground between a '59 & C5 is kind of barren.
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

the brobucker is 42 pe. 10k is about the limit for 42 wire but you can do it. ive made a few and had a few 10k pups made by the custom shop.

is it difficult? a little but with practice it can be done and still make a very musical pup.

for me 9.4k-10k is the magic range for a bucker but not everyone wants the same thing or even goes about getting it the same way
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

It can be done...never said it couldn't,....i've done it....but it is difficult and you have to adjust the tension on the tensioners to provide a lot more tension than a normally wound humbucker.

A really tightly wound coil can loose dynamics...with a tightly wound coil you're defeating the purpose of scatterwinding which lowers the capacitance, and therefore less of the highs will come through and the resonant peak of the pickup will stay the same or decrease.

The windings will be compacted and the space between each turn won't be maximized to lower the distributed capacitance.

Unfortunately, I don't have the brobucker model to see for myself....I am just passing along info from my own experience.

The low to mid 9k ohm is where i like to max out in those winds with 42 AWG....hot PAF types ; )
 
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Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

kevinT said:
It can be done...never said it couldn't,....i've done it....but it is difficult and you have to adjust the tension on the tensioners to provide a lot more tension than a normally wound humbucker.

A really tightly wound coil can loose dynamics...with a tightly wound coil you're defeating the purpose of scatterwinding which lowers the capacitance, and therefore less of the highs will come through and the resonant peak of the pickup will stay the same or decrease.

The windings will be compacted and the space between each turn won't be maximized to lower the distributed capacitance.

Unfortunately, I don't have the brobucker model to see for myself....I am just passing along info from my own experience.

The low to mid 9k ohm is where i like to max out in those winds with 42 AWG....hot PAF types ; )
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SDs generally are not scatterwound if memory serves me correctly. That seems to be the area of most boutique winders.

As for the BB itself it is a musical pup, some guys said they thought the coils were bulging, that wasn't my experience but it is possible.

One of the things about CS Duncans is the documentation that it shows the gauss of the mag model name/# who it was made for and wire gauge.

Kevin I'm curious are you a hobbyist winder or have you set up your own business? We have another winder here too. David Plummer of Zhangbucker.

Luke
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Luke Duke said:
SDs generally are not scatterwound if memory serves me correctly. That seems to be the area of most boutique winders.
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IIRC, the custom shop single coils are scatter wound, humbuckers are wound by machine, with the vintage PAF types wound on the Leesona -- "just like the originals". Still, I'm not sure what MJ used for the Bro - whether it was the Leesona or a custom shop winder.
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Generally most machine wound pickups are also scatterwound too but the terminology and the techniques that are used is different.

The purpose of scatterwinding (or random guiding of the wire by hand) is to lower the distributed capacitance. ...and most folks agree that scatterwound pickups sound good.

When it comes to machine wound pickups, you basically do the same thing by programming the controller to do a scatterwind...but it isn't a random scatter per se...but you can mimic scatterwinding by manipulating the spacing (the pitch) between each turn so that the wire doesn't lay up against each other...the pitch will also determine the number of turns per layer (TPL).

By increasing the pitch (spacing of wire) on the controller, your basically mimicing handguiding the wire in that when you hand guide the wire, you're unable to place each turn of wire perfectly against the next turn. Many pickup designers base their designs on the concept of TPL. And to arrive at a certain TPL on the bobbin, you essentually manipulate the pitch.

There has been much debate among winders regarding the impact of randomness and winding pattern in a coil vs. what a machine can do. IMO...it doesn't matter how the wire was placed on the bobbin...if the same amount of "air" exists in a coil, a pickup, with wire guided by hand or by machine should sound very similar (with all other variables being equal).

I am a winder and sell pickups....to give the utmost respect to SD, I'm not going to mention my company in public on the forum....however, if you're interested, PM me and I will tell you.
 
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Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

if you want, name the company. there are other members who have winding businesses, like dave and zhangbucker that are active posters on here. even i wind and sell pups
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

I really wish I'd bought about 3 Brobuckers when I had the chance, but only bought one nickel covered one. I also wish I could have one specifically made as a neck pickup.

Another solution to the medium output "hole" in the market is to use hybrids.
My humbucking alder/rosewood strat has a C5/59 hybrid, and it's the most perfect humbucker I've found for strats. It's equally great in LP style guitars. The only negative at all would be the slight increase in hum, when using mismatched coils. But the tone and feel is great.

Rather than paying Custom Shop or boutique prices, I think more players should try something like buying a used Custom Custom and 59, then combine them into an A5 hybrid and A2 hybrid. You'll have 2 of the best pickups money can buy, but it'll cost you a lot less.
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Curly said:
IIRC, the custom shop single coils are scatter wound, humbuckers are wound by machine, with the vintage PAF types wound on the Leesona -- "just like the originals". Still, I'm not sure what MJ used for the Bro - whether it was the Leesona or a custom shop winder.
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That's true, I should have been more clear.
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

jeremy said:
if you want, name the company. there are other members who have winding businesses, like dave and zhangbucker that are active posters on here. even i wind and sell pups
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I know Zhang from the pickup maker's forum....he's a good guy and knows his stuff.

ok, I'll give you the name...but if you ban me or I get banned for doing so.....I hold you personally responsible :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

the company is GUITARFORCE Custom Pickups

www.guitarforcepickups.com
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Kevin, I know what you mean. I keep a low profile in that regard both out of respect and to avoid getting the boot.
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Zhangliqun said:
My apologies in case someone else pointed this out, but the Fillmores are a different animal -- 43 gauge wire. The Brobucker is 42.
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You must have mis-interpreted my post My line about the Fillmores was in reference to the post above mine (which I quoted in my post):

"I like mine around 13k for the bridge, 10k for neck sounds good to me though."

The Fillmore set is 10K in the neck and 13K in the bridge and sounds great and not super-hot, have crunch and clean up nicely with the volume knob, as do other pickups I have with different specs. So for me, 10K humbuckers, while being another option in the pickup arsenal, aren't the "ideal".

-Austin
 
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Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

That's true. No single DCR spec is "ideal" because of all the other variables.

I could make you twenty 10k pickups that would run the gamut from slice to mud, sweet to sour, great to stank, you name it. I'm sure KevinT and jeremy could too.
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Zhangliqun said:
That's true. No single DCR spec is "ideal" because of all the other variables.

I could make you twenty 10k pickups that would run the gamut from slice to mud, sweet to sour, great to stank, you name it. I'm sure KevinT and jeremy could too.
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And that's one of the things that's so great about this forum. People like you that have tons of in-depth experience with pickups.

-Austin
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Hey, if you wanna brownnose me, just put something in the tip jar, okay pal?

(just kidding...)
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Zhangliqun said:
Hey, if you wanna brownnose me, just put something in the tip jar, okay pal?

(just kidding...)
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BTW I still have that amazing A3 10.5k pup you made me. We need to hook up and you should match the color code to Duncan wiring for me =). Potting would be nice too if you don't charge a lot.

Either way, would love to swap licks with ya again!
 
Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

OlinMusic said:
BTW I still have that amazing A3 10.5k pup you made me. We need to hook up and you should match the color code to Duncan wiring for me =). Potting would be nice too if you don't charge a lot.

Either way, would love to swap licks with ya again!
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Well, you know where to find me, plus I have the other "O-bucker" that is wired with the Duncan code collecting dust.
 
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