Did Y'all See This Stuff?
- Thread starter BS123
- Start date
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
Butch....thanks for the info. I've sent an e-mail to the Fender attorney's. I would be most dissapointed if Fender was successful at banning or restricting these type of guitar projects. I can say that I believe it would keep me from purchasing any Fender products, and to instead seek out the higher quality guitars built by independent luthiers.
Thanks again for the links.
Butch....thanks for the info. I've sent an e-mail to the Fender attorney's. I would be most dissapointed if Fender was successful at banning or restricting these type of guitar projects. I can say that I believe it would keep me from purchasing any Fender products, and to instead seek out the higher quality guitars built by independent luthiers.
Thanks again for the links.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
This is one of those situations, again, where "we the people" have, more or less, complete control over this, but folks are too spoiled and lazy to take a stand. If everyone boycotted Fender, or Gibson for that matter, for only about a month or two, this crap would stop dead in its tracks.
Its like forcing the cable companies to lower there rates, but people won't go without their beloved cable, (or satellite), for a week, let alone a month.
Consequently, we're going to get what we're willing to put up with. Life is controlled by the lowest-common-denominator syndrome. :yell:
This is one of those situations, again, where "we the people" have, more or less, complete control over this, but folks are too spoiled and lazy to take a stand. If everyone boycotted Fender, or Gibson for that matter, for only about a month or two, this crap would stop dead in its tracks.
Its like forcing the cable companies to lower there rates, but people won't go without their beloved cable, (or satellite), for a week, let alone a month.
Consequently, we're going to get what we're willing to put up with. Life is controlled by the lowest-common-denominator syndrome. :yell:
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
If you really want to help make a difference, follow the links that Butch provided, and it will take you to a site where you can send an email directly to Fender's lawyers. Taking a rational approach and explaining that this type of action will cost them your business, as well as the business of everyone else who will listen to your opinion, is what will make the difference.
I simply told them that as an avid player and gear junkie who now makes in excess of 150k, that if they continue to pursue this type of litigation that I will no longer purchase their products, will even possibly sell what I have, and use any influence I have to spread the word to as many people as posssible that Fender should not be supported.
In all honesty, I should track down the same info for Gibson and do the same. Competition means better guitars for all of us. When there was a serious lack of guitar manufactuers, look at the crappy guitars produced in the 70's. Some of the best guitars in the world were comming out of Japan and Korea.
If you really want to help make a difference, follow the links that Butch provided, and it will take you to a site where you can send an email directly to Fender's lawyers. Taking a rational approach and explaining that this type of action will cost them your business, as well as the business of everyone else who will listen to your opinion, is what will make the difference.
I simply told them that as an avid player and gear junkie who now makes in excess of 150k, that if they continue to pursue this type of litigation that I will no longer purchase their products, will even possibly sell what I have, and use any influence I have to spread the word to as many people as posssible that Fender should not be supported.
In all honesty, I should track down the same info for Gibson and do the same. Competition means better guitars for all of us. When there was a serious lack of guitar manufactuers, look at the crappy guitars produced in the 70's. Some of the best guitars in the world were comming out of Japan and Korea.
T
TheProphet
Guest
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
I remember seeing this 6 or 7 months ago ... AFAIK I though it was hocus pocus hogwash.
But people keep bringing this up so maybe it's true
I remember seeing this 6 or 7 months ago ... AFAIK I though it was hocus pocus hogwash.
But people keep bringing this up so maybe it's true
rspst14
Tone Cat
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
That's one of the reasons I bought a Hamer rather than a Gibson, and I'm putting together a parts Strat rather than buying an actual Fender. Both companies use their dominance in the marketplace to bully other manufacturers because they know it's becoming harder and harder to compete with these outside products. Gibson knows that PRS makes higher quality guitars, so they go after them in the courts rather than trying to correct the poorly cut nuts/cheaper wood/poor fretwork that seems to be plaguing newer Gibsons these days. Fender's quality control seems to be a little better, but let's face it, they basically have two main models, of which they make about 50 different variations. Fender is going to end up shooting themselves in the foot with this idea. They'd be much better off licensing their designs to these smaller builders and making a profit. I'd never buy an actual Fender because I find the necks too thin and narrow. But I would buy a Fender licensed body and put a Warmoth neck on it. If I can't do that, then forget it.
Ryan
That's one of the reasons I bought a Hamer rather than a Gibson, and I'm putting together a parts Strat rather than buying an actual Fender. Both companies use their dominance in the marketplace to bully other manufacturers because they know it's becoming harder and harder to compete with these outside products. Gibson knows that PRS makes higher quality guitars, so they go after them in the courts rather than trying to correct the poorly cut nuts/cheaper wood/poor fretwork that seems to be plaguing newer Gibsons these days. Fender's quality control seems to be a little better, but let's face it, they basically have two main models, of which they make about 50 different variations. Fender is going to end up shooting themselves in the foot with this idea. They'd be much better off licensing their designs to these smaller builders and making a profit. I'd never buy an actual Fender because I find the necks too thin and narrow. But I would buy a Fender licensed body and put a Warmoth neck on it. If I can't do that, then forget it.
Ryan
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
I hate to say it, because I do believe in the spirit of small business, but Silverface (who is obviously on the side of Fender) is dead right. Laws, trademarks, copyrights, and logos are in place for a purpose. Just because you don't like it, doesn't negate it.
Fender and Gibson are the Coke, Pepsi, and McDonalds of guitars. They've created a design that is theirs, has been theirs, and always will be theirs. Just because they've allowed Warmoth to license their product at a cost, for the purpose of selling them as parts, DOES NOT mean you can take those parts, put them together, slap a Fender logo on them, and sell them as Fender replicas. The assembly and sale of those guitars as a business enterprise is the equivalent of me taking an Apple computer, putting different guts in it, and selling it as 'An Improved Apple G6'. Maybe a few computer geeks would think it's cool, but Apple wouldn't, and they'd sue you.
Bottom line. If you want to start a guitar company, try to be as original as Orville and Leo. If you can't do that, you aren't a guitar builder, you're a thief. IMO Gibson and Fender have been pretty lenient about the multitudes of ripoff guitars that have stolen their designs since day one. The internet makes it more visible now, so Gibson and Fender are forced to maintain their trademark, or fear losing it to EVERY import guitar maker. Unfortunately, the first people to get popped are PRS and the small Fender copy makers. I'm still waiting for every amp company to sue Line 6 for using their names in their instruction manuals then making something that sounds like a stale recreation, while using their good name to promote it.
I hate to say it, because I do believe in the spirit of small business, but Silverface (who is obviously on the side of Fender) is dead right. Laws, trademarks, copyrights, and logos are in place for a purpose. Just because you don't like it, doesn't negate it.
Fender and Gibson are the Coke, Pepsi, and McDonalds of guitars. They've created a design that is theirs, has been theirs, and always will be theirs. Just because they've allowed Warmoth to license their product at a cost, for the purpose of selling them as parts, DOES NOT mean you can take those parts, put them together, slap a Fender logo on them, and sell them as Fender replicas. The assembly and sale of those guitars as a business enterprise is the equivalent of me taking an Apple computer, putting different guts in it, and selling it as 'An Improved Apple G6'. Maybe a few computer geeks would think it's cool, but Apple wouldn't, and they'd sue you.
Bottom line. If you want to start a guitar company, try to be as original as Orville and Leo. If you can't do that, you aren't a guitar builder, you're a thief. IMO Gibson and Fender have been pretty lenient about the multitudes of ripoff guitars that have stolen their designs since day one. The internet makes it more visible now, so Gibson and Fender are forced to maintain their trademark, or fear losing it to EVERY import guitar maker. Unfortunately, the first people to get popped are PRS and the small Fender copy makers. I'm still waiting for every amp company to sue Line 6 for using their names in their instruction manuals then making something that sounds like a stale recreation, while using their good name to promote it.
y2stevo
New member
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
Sad but true. GJ's right, Althought we might not like the quality coming out of fender and the lack of innovation,its still their product, they designed them many many years before these companies started up,so they have every right to claim back what is theirs...Gearjoneser said:
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
i agree with almost everything GJ said, but i take a small issue on two points ... the way i read some of the C&D letters, they were even going to shut down people who pay full price for fully licensed parts from warmouth / allparts / etc who assemble and sell them even WITHOUT a fender logo .. i hope i am wrong, but i think i am not
also, i am nearly certain that line6 has secured the rights to use those terms (eg. manufacturers and amp model names) from their respective copywrite owners
cheesr
t4d
Gearjoneser said:
i agree with almost everything GJ said, but i take a small issue on two points ... the way i read some of the C&D letters, they were even going to shut down people who pay full price for fully licensed parts from warmouth / allparts / etc who assemble and sell them even WITHOUT a fender logo .. i hope i am wrong, but i think i am not
also, i am nearly certain that line6 has secured the rights to use those terms (eg. manufacturers and amp model names) from their respective copywrite owners
cheesr
t4d
BS123
New member
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
I believe Bill Nash got busted for not making Fender look-a-like guitars. As Silverface said, he got busted for making Strat and Tele copies then putting the Fender decal on the headstock and selling them as Fenders. That ain't cool.... :nono:
However, and I'm not a legal expert, I believe Fender is realizing that they're losing potential sales. Not to people who are buying mid-priced guitars like American Series, Deluxe Series, and Classic Series, but to highend buyers. These are the type of guitars like Scott Lentz, Bill Nash, John Surh, Callaham, and others. These builders compete with Fender's Custom Shop. Now this might be a bit off base but it's what seems to be happening to me.
Seems to me that if builders took a more of a pioneering approach they might be better off. Vince Cunetto was making Relics for Fender back in the 1990's. He now makes his own line of guitars. They're similar; yet different...
I believe Bill Nash got busted for not making Fender look-a-like guitars. As Silverface said, he got busted for making Strat and Tele copies then putting the Fender decal on the headstock and selling them as Fenders. That ain't cool.... :nono:
However, and I'm not a legal expert, I believe Fender is realizing that they're losing potential sales. Not to people who are buying mid-priced guitars like American Series, Deluxe Series, and Classic Series, but to highend buyers. These are the type of guitars like Scott Lentz, Bill Nash, John Surh, Callaham, and others. These builders compete with Fender's Custom Shop. Now this might be a bit off base but it's what seems to be happening to me.
Seems to me that if builders took a more of a pioneering approach they might be better off. Vince Cunetto was making Relics for Fender back in the 1990's. He now makes his own line of guitars. They're similar; yet different...
Last edited:
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Did Y'all See This Stuff?
I must also clarify that I agree that anyone who is using licenced parts, slapping logo on it saying Fender should be subject to legal action. I'm refering to the builders who are using these licenced parts, or parts with similar shapes, and NOT touting them as genuine Fender, as the one's who should be left alone. What I think were talking about here is that people commiting FORGERY essentially, and selling licenced parts guitars as GENUNIE FENDER products should be stopped. I just think it would be a travisty if we could not got to places like Warmoth, USA Guitars ect, and buy high quality parts that are legit in themselvs, and then enjoy putting these together as projects.
GJ - didn't you take some of the top components of various Fenders that you've had over the years to make your number 1 strat? If so, there is nothing wrong with that. In my mind it's like GM saying ok, if you have one of our cars, you can only put genuine GM parts in it, and they have to be the EXACT same part as what was on there. You can't go to a junkyard to find something cheaper, or go to Auto Zone and buy "generic" replacement parts that cost less. Or, you can't rebuild an engine in one of our cars using other manufactueres parts. The list could go on.
I agree that it's a more complex issue with Fender, because parts can be very easily exchanged by people with minimal skills. Gibson type guitars on the other hand cannot be as easily forged. Everyone can tell the difference between a single cut and a Les Paul. Sorry, sometimes I tend to ramble. I just think that as long as these small luthiers are not promoting their products as GENUINE FENDER guitars, no harm no foul.
I must also clarify that I agree that anyone who is using licenced parts, slapping logo on it saying Fender should be subject to legal action. I'm refering to the builders who are using these licenced parts, or parts with similar shapes, and NOT touting them as genuine Fender, as the one's who should be left alone. What I think were talking about here is that people commiting FORGERY essentially, and selling licenced parts guitars as GENUNIE FENDER products should be stopped. I just think it would be a travisty if we could not got to places like Warmoth, USA Guitars ect, and buy high quality parts that are legit in themselvs, and then enjoy putting these together as projects.
GJ - didn't you take some of the top components of various Fenders that you've had over the years to make your number 1 strat? If so, there is nothing wrong with that. In my mind it's like GM saying ok, if you have one of our cars, you can only put genuine GM parts in it, and they have to be the EXACT same part as what was on there. You can't go to a junkyard to find something cheaper, or go to Auto Zone and buy "generic" replacement parts that cost less. Or, you can't rebuild an engine in one of our cars using other manufactueres parts. The list could go on.
I agree that it's a more complex issue with Fender, because parts can be very easily exchanged by people with minimal skills. Gibson type guitars on the other hand cannot be as easily forged. Everyone can tell the difference between a single cut and a Les Paul. Sorry, sometimes I tend to ramble. I just think that as long as these small luthiers are not promoting their products as GENUINE FENDER guitars, no harm no foul.
