Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

[nuntius]

I'm talking in particular about a power + pre amp rack setup, I don't use many effects... In fact I don't use any besides for one song which needs delay for the riff to work :laugh2:

Well sometime this year, the time will come to move up from my flextone II 2x12, but I see no harm in looking before I get the cash together

Atm, I've only tried a few amps - Marshall DSL 401, Marshall DSL 50 head + 2x12 cab, an Engl Screamer 50 combo 1x12, and a Peavey XXX combo.

Tbh, none have really sparked enough intrest that I'd want to save up for that particular amp... I liked the Engl but with it being so expensive, only 1x12 and having shared EQ's I wouldn't buy it.

My particular requirements are 2x12, seperate EQ's and 50 watts if possible. It must have a nice clean channel, enough gain to do some metal with, but also have decent mid gained sounds. If you want a rough ballpark for some tones, check the link in my sig and try out a few tracks to give you an idea of the tones I use (recorded with guitar port)

I'm asking about the rack setup because I had a band practise today, and a guy in the room next door had a Boogie pre-amp and Marshall poweramp setup, to a marshall 4x12 and his tone was alright.

In what ways does it sound different? What advantages are there to the rack power + pre-amp setup?

Also, any reccomendations to amps for me to check out would be greatly appreciated. I'm not looking to buy right away, and I've become very picky about my tone so I'm gonna start the search early, because I know it's gonna take me a while before I find "the" amp :smack:

Used/New = not an issue. I've set a budget at 800 pounds.

Thanks in advance guys :smoker:

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

You have a lot more flexibility with a rack setup. However, they often can be very heavy, a burden to lug around, and don't have quite the "push" that a standard combo can give you.

A quality rack setup will be quite expensive, no way around it. A high quality VHT power amp can run around a 1000 or higher and some quality preamps go for 1500 or higher alone.

What's nice is the midi accessibility and the fact that you have so many different flavors at immediate control. For someone that has the money and has an easy way of transporting it, I think they'd be great to have.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

i honestly don't think on just listening, anyone can tell the difference between a rack or regular amp setup. It is just a different form factor of the same thing. Racks are more of a modular approach. I use both.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

i honestly don't think on just listening, anyone can tell the difference between a rack or regular amp setup. It is just a different form factor of the same thing. Racks are more of a modular approach. I use both.

+1

in my experience, the benefits of a rack setup are a vastly broader sonic variety at the tap of a footswitch ... the downside are cost, complexity, and weight/size

good luck,
t4d

 

[FireBros.]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

in my experience, the benefits of a rack setup are a vastly broader sonic variety at the tap of a footswitch ... the downside are cost, complexity, and weight/size
t4d

+1

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice ne

Racks are great, but I don't think you will notice any significant improvement, Nuni, as already stated above.

However, there is something to be said about having a seperate power transformer for the preamp and power amplifier. There is more current available on demand, and in my case, if one channel in my power amp goes out in my rack, I can easily switch to the other and not loose it on a gig. With a head, once something goes wrong with your head, that's it -- it's game over.

That being said, I still think you should get an Engl Powerball 1/2 stack!!

 

[nuntius]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Haha, I haven't been able to get down to that shop yet, but I'll get there eventually. I'm looking forward to trying all those Engl's

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

I used to have a pre amp power amp setup with my rack stuff. I prefer the tone of a amp head as opposed to the thin sound I got from all the rack pre/power amps I used.
a prominent amp builder I know says that the preamp and poweramp sharing the same transformer is the way to go as you lose some body and tone from using rack stuff. By the way he builds rack stuff also.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

I think a rack setup would be an appropriate rig for you. Just don't make the mistake of rack-itis, where you think the bigger it is, the more impressive it is.
To my ears, heads have a little more immediacy to the note, since there's less linkage between the pre and power section, but it can be minimized by having nothing, or just one FX unit, in between. Since Marshall stuff is probably easier for you to get where you live, I'd stick with a JMP-1/5050 setup, with a stereo JCM900 BV straight cab with Vintage 30's. Then use a Furman power cond, TC, Alesis, or Roland multiFX unit, and a midi pedal like the new Behringer or Rolls Midi Buddy. Put it all in an 8 space rack, sitting on top of your Marshall stereo straight cab (for deeper tone and better support for the rack). After spending a few days midi mapping all your channels and FX, your life will be easier, trying to navigate all the tones you need.

 

[54stratlover]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

I think a rack setup would be an appropriate rig for you. Just don't make the mistake of rack-itis, where you think the bigger it is, the more impressive it is.
To my ears, heads have a little more immediacy to the note, since there's less linkage between the pre and power section, but it can be minimized by having nothing, or just one FX unit, in between. Since Marshall stuff is probably easier for you to get where you live, I'd stick with a JMP-1/5050 setup, with a stereo JCM900 BV straight cab with Vintage 30's. Then use a Furman power cond, TC, Alesis, or Roland multiFX unit, and a midi pedal like the new Behringer or Rolls Midi Buddy. Put it all in an 8 space rack, sitting on top of your Marshall stereo straight cab (for deeper tone and better support for the rack). After spending a few days midi mapping all your channels and FX, your life will be easier, trying to navigate all the tones you need.

+1

I have a marshall rack set-up. JMP-1 with a 9000 series el-34 50/50 power amp. I can get all the tones and versatility I want. I have ,and have had a variety of marshal heads (900, 800, jmp) Probably the least versatile tone I used was the 900. But I will blame that on youth, I had it in my early 20's and "I" was less versatile at the time. I am planning on adding a tri-axis and 2:90 to my collection one of these days. Great clean and dirty tones in that combo. Like Joneser said, an 8 space rack and a effect processor, and there you go. When I played out with it I ran it stereo, but I am not sure what good it did running it through a stereo cab. there is really no seperation. I think maybe 2 really good 2x12 cabs would be a better idea, or 2 4x12s if weight is not an issue. I always used TUBE rack components. In my earlier days I used a peavey pro fex, and a digitech dsp-21 and a 2101 I didn't really like them. I never really liked pure digital or solid state pre-amps. the tube preamps I like are the soldano sp-77 (2 channells) JMP-1, and the Tri-Axis. I don't have experience with the newer digital rack stuff, so I can't give an opinion there. the line 6 rack stuff seems cool, but I am not sure how one would power them. I Imagine if one used a tube power amp you would end up "coloring" the tone with the power amps. I guess one should get a vetta and that would be about the same thing.

 

[nuntius]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Woah, I never looked into the price of that rack stuff... It'd deffinately be bought used :laugh2:

The JMP1 + 50/50 poweramp would run close to a grand if bought new, then I'd still need a cab :E

On a side note, are Laney GH50L's any good? One of my fave guitarists, Paul Gilbert uses Laney stuff and gets great tone - while I'm not falling into the trap of "So and so uses it so it must be good" I am intregued as to whether or not they are a good investment tonally (and as far as reliability is concerned). IE - would they be worth getting second hand and putting better tubes in, or should I just save up more and get a higher price/quality amp.

Looking for as many suggestions as possible!

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Check this guy out, he uses a 100 watter Laney....and he spends time playing..must be working then
http://www.freakguitar.com/

 

[nuntius]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Check this guy out, he uses a 100 watter Laney....and he spends time playing..must be working then
http://www.freakguitar.com/

Haha, don't even have to click the link to know who that is :laugh2:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Yep and he gets some wild sounds out of his non smotique flotique setup

 

[Hellion]

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

Re: Differences in tonality between a rack setup and regular amp setup? Amp advice needed

I haven't noticed any real loss of tone per se' when using my rack system, but I've always been able to correct it if necessary. It is a little harder to do that if you're using a midi controller/processor etc, but I have a BBE Sonic Maximizer between the processor and the power amp, so I use that like an eq.