Digital Modelers

Gtrjunior

New member
I recently bought my first modeler and although I was skeptical at first I have come to understand why they are so popular.
I have always been a tube amp snob and only bought my AA12 out of necessity.
I used it at band practice the other night and was pretty amazed at just how good it sounded.
So, it got me to thinking about what other high end offerings there are on the market.
Im aware of Kemper, Helix, AxeFX etc.
What else is out there, which are the best available, what are the differences in these units and pros/cons of each...
Some have built in power amps and some don’t, then there is the separate foot switch pedal....
The AA12 is a good unit but unless I’m mistaken it’s not really considered a top tier unit? IDK, maybe it is...
But I got to thinking of there are better, more realistic sounding units available, I can definitely see myself NOT lugging an amp to gigs anymore...
Maybe it’s time to think about selling the JCM800?
 
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I use a Fender Tone Master Deluxe, which is a modeling combo that models 1 amp really well. It only weighs just over 20lbs.
 
I’ve been using a Fender Mustang III v2 100 watt 1x12 for the last 6 months or so. Love it.

Wanted something smaller for headphone use, and picked up a Mooer GE200 earlier today. Obviously haven’t gotten too deep into it yet, but I love modeling devices. My hope is the Mooer ends up sounding killer, and I can use it as my headphone rig or run it into the effects return of a Fender 2x12 100 watt solid state amp to play out.
 
Maybe I titled the thread wrong....I’m looking to get away from an onstage amplifier.
Specifically I’m looking at Kemper, AxeFX or something similar.
Now I know the units with a built in power amp will allow me to play through a cabinet. I’m not 100% sure I “need” that but it might come in handy in a situation where there is a cabinet available and I’m not necessarily running a line to FOH (like a rehearsal situation or an informal jam)
 
I use a Fender Tone Master Deluxe, which is a modeling combo that models 1 amp really well. It only weighs just over 20lbs.

I thought you had a Fractal? That’s an AxeFX, right? I know they make a few different products but I’m not sure I’m familiar with exactly what they all are.
 
Maybe I titled the thread wrong....I’m looking to get away from an onstage amplifier.
Specifically I’m looking at Kemper, AxeFX or something similar.
Now I know the units with a built in power amp will allow me to play through a cabinet. I’m not 100% sure I “need” that but it might come in handy in a situation where there is a cabinet available and I’m not necessarily running a line to FOH (like a rehearsal situation or an informal jam)

If you want get away from the amp on the stage, then you should check out the flagship floorboards. You probably don't need to jump down the rabbit hole like many before you. AFAIK Kemper is the only company that has a model with a built-in power amp but I have zero experience with them other than plugging in to lay down a lead one time.

The floorboard Kemper Stage does not have a power amp, can't speak to it otherwise,

Fractal AX8, while long discontinued still sounds great and can be found in the wild, IMO Fractal AX8 has a slight edge on tone, but can only run one amp at a time. Much easier to edit when plugged into a PC,

Line6 Helix has the best user-friendly and fun UI, capable of running multiple amps simultaneously, and you really don't need a PC at all to edit. Still sounds great, is still getting updates and the Helix LT is an excellent lower-cost alternative to the pricier Helix, with the same tones and power, just not as much I/O.

You could likely track either one down for around $1000 USD if you keep your eyes peeled, regardless if you want a live cab you will need a separate power amp (or bring your head and use it as such by plugging into the FX loop return)

As long as you're willing to take the time to set the patches/scenes/footswitches up for the gig ahead of time, you can't lose!
 
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I recently bought my first modeler and although I was skeptical at first I have come to understand why they are so popular.
I have always been a tube amp snob and only bought my AA12 out of necessity.
I used it at band practice the other night and was pretty amazed at just how good it sounded.
So, it got me to thinking about what other high end offerings there are on the market.
Im aware of Kemper, Helix, AxeFX etc.
What else is out there, which are the best available, what are the differences in these units and pros/cons of each...
Some have built in power amps and some don’t, then there is the separate foot switch pedal....
The AA12 is a good unit but unless I’m mistaken it’s not really considered a top tier unit? IDK, maybe it is...
But I got to thinking of there are better, more realistic sounding units available, I can definitely see myself NOT lugging an amp to gigs anymore...
Maybe it’s time to think about selling the JCM800?

The AA12 sounds great, I think the issue is that it has an old-fashioned user interface and doesn't have a ton of effects/variety.

I recently picked up a Zoom G11 which despite my indecision, may end up keeping. The reason, and this may sound trivial (it wasn't something I originally though was important), is that the touch screen makes it much easier to organize my patches. I'm dialing in tones and setting up collections that work for me, without needing to learn anything.

I've played modelers since the early Boss GT units, have tried the Helix, and the issue I've always had to deal with is naming and organizing patches. With the touch screen I can type in patch and bank names like its a smart phone. And I can drag/drop patches between slots, and more importantly, I can drag/drop banks around. Its even easier than using a computer interface with a mouse.

EVERY modeler I've used prior to this, I was always overwriting patches because it wasn't easy to make new space, and trying to put them where I wanted them was always a major ordeal.

I think we are at the point where they all sound great (and most of them feel great). What will set them apart is how easy they are to set up to your liking.

The Helix had a great interface five years ago, but its already obsolete. I think once you've tried a touch interface, you can type in patch names and drag/drop patches around, you won't want to use an encoder-based system. You might be *used* to an encoder based system, but once you try touch you won't want to go back.

About half of them have touch interfaces. Zoom, Headrush, Hotone, and upcoming Quad Cortex. For me, the Headrush is too big, and the Quad Cortex is too expensive, which leaves the Zoom.
 
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I thought you had a Fractal? That’s an AxeFX, right? I know they make a few different products but I’m not sure I’m familiar with exactly what they all are.

I have both, a modeling Fender, and a Fractal FM3. They are for 2 different uses. I've been using the FM3 for recording and playing at home. Once I feel comfortable with it (it has only been a month or so), I will use it for live shows.
 
If you want get away from the amp on the stage, then you should check out the flagship floorboards. You probably don't need to jump down the rabbit hole like many before you. AFAIK Kemper is the only company that has a model with a built-in power amp but I have zero experience with them other than plugging in to lay down a lead one time.

The floorboard Kemper Stage does not have a power amp, can't speak to it otherwise,

Fractal AX8, while long discontinued still sounds great and can be found in the wild, IMO Fractal AX8 has a slight edge on tone, but can only run one amp at a time. Much easier to edit when plugged into a PC,

Line6 Helix has the best user-friendly and fun UI, capable of running multiple amps simultaneously, and you really don't need a PC at all to edit. Still sounds great, is still getting updates and the Helix LT is an excellent lower-cost alternative to the pricier Helix, with the same tones and power, just not as much I/O.

You could likely track either one down for around $1000 USD if you keep your eyes peeled, regardless if you want a live cab you will need a separate power amp (or bring your head and use it as such by plugging into the FX loop return)

As long as you're willing to take the time to set the patches/scenes/footswitches up for the gig ahead of time, you can't lose!

What do you mean when you say you can only run one amp at a time?
 
I'm on my second modeling amp. Sold the first one only because of back issues and needing something lighter. It was a Vox AD50VT. Not as feature rich as what is out there now but got the job done and sounded great. I have another Vox, an AV30. It's a 1x10 combo that is half the weight but sounds even better. It's very much WYSIWYG interface, takes pedals well, can take a 2-button footswitch or 5-button footswitch (I have the 5), and is LOUD!!!! Like, it can keep up with a John Bonham pounding drummer loud. I've been asked to turn it down numerous times...LOL.

It's not the most expensive thing in the world and doesn't have the bells and whistles of a Helix or Fractal, but what it does, it does really well.

https://voxamps.com/product/av30/
 
Gotcha. The Headrush is another option in that area. I've heard some local players with it and they've all gotten really good sounds out of it. The one with the treadle is the one to look at. Street price is $999.
 
So what is the difference between the FM-3 and the AceFX III?
Is the FM-3 a more feature lite unit?

The Axe III has more stuff and processing power (also twice as expensive). There are limitations on what the FM3 can run, like 1 amp and 1 cab at a time, etc. They are also very different form factors.
 
Maybe you should change the title to Amp Modelers? When I see Modeling Amp I think of amps like the Boss Katanas, Fender Mustangs and the new Tone Masters, etc... But I see that you are talking about modelers.

The Amplifires are regarded as great modelers, but as mentioned, their interface is not the most straight-forward/up to date. I use a Boss GT-1000, more processing power than the Helix so it never runs out or limits effects. It's philosophy is a little different though, some of it's classic models are pretty direct copies (or the Boss version of a direct copy, but all the companies have their own version of Marshalls, Rectos, etc...) but the latest models are not direct copies but "idealized" amps mixing the best qualities of others, or using Boss' MDP tech, whatever. There are definitely some great sounds in there with some dialing in.

Check the "WHAT AMP MODELS ARE INCLUDED IN THE GT-1000?" section - https://www.boss.info/us/promos/gt-1000_ultimate_guide/
 
Modeling Amps

I tried changing the title to Digital Modelers but it didn’t take. I’ll try again

Edit: I tried twice now and it keep reverting back....?
 
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Modeling Amps

@Top-L


Yes, the AA12 does sound good but I can already see it’s limitations. It’s going to be fine for my church use so I’m not too worried about that.
But now that I see the possibilities of modeling I’ve got the bug for a nice modeler.
An aquantenance has a helix and he let me check it out. It sounded just ok to me. That said, his tone preferences aren’t the same as mine so I’m sure with some experimenting I could dial in something more to my liking.
As far as the G11, I know you had some reservations about it and I was following your thread on it. Tbh, I think you may have scared me away from that unit. Although the touch screen does sound like a great feature.
 
@Top-L

As far as the G11, I know you had some reservations about it and I was following your thread on it. Tbh, I think you may have scared me away from that unit. Although the touch screen does sound like a great feature.

I think I had some bad luck. The first one from Amazon, one of the screens was out. The replacement from Sweetwater had the touchscreen hanging out of its socket. This soured my initial impression.

Furthermore, the presets are so bad that during the first day of trying to dial in my tones, I made some mistakes. Some of the presets have multiple IRs and cab sims mixed together, in fact the first preset 001 comes with a boxy sound because of this. I think they are trying to show users that there can be multiple IRs and cab sims in a single patch, which is a powerful feature, but creates some phase issues in that patch. Its something you might do for a rythym guitar in a mix, but its not a great way to showcase the amp tones.

Making matters worse, when you insert a new cab sim in a patch, the mic is turned off by default for some unknown reason. I was screwing around for a good while without the mic sim on which was why it sounded grainy.

There are powerful hi/lo pass filters that are at 50% stock in the cab sim, by just adjusting them slightly the tone will either be up front or way back in the mix. Its not clear whats going on when you first start playing it.

I wouldn't recommend the G11 to you. Its an immediate gratification box that is soured by bad presets that are trying to do too much.

But having used the G11 touch screen and appreciating the simplicity of the interface, I don't know which other one I would recommend. In the $500-600 range, I think the G11 is a no brainer over something like the Pod Go or HX Stomp (unless you wanted a small format box to mix with other pedals.) None of the other low end boxes have dual fx loops or midi out (no chance to switch external amps or gear), and I don't think they sound as good as the Zoom.

In the $800-1000 range, there is the Headrush, which has touch interface, but it a monstrous size and seems to have limited palette of FX. There are the GT1000 and FM3 which are very tweakable, but no touch interface. The FM3 takes considerable time switching patches, so it takes a good bit of programming with scenes, and you only get three switches, no pedal, so there is some mental math you need to do to set it up for live playing. The GT1000 interface, I'm familiar with it, and just can't see myself dealing with that for another five years. A week with drag/drop patches/banks and I can't go back to the GT way.

Spend $1200-1500 gets you a Helix LT or Helix. I'm not convinced the modeling is worth that much and the interface is not-touch so end of life. They are five years old at this point, there was something about the distortion quality that was off putting to me, but other people like it.

I am going to use the Zoom G11 until the next generation of GT or Helix with touch screen comes out. The Quad Cortex might be a contender, but its 3x the cost of the Zoom. I wouldn't go any lower in price than the G11, because then you start losing essentials like MIDI.

If money is not an issue and if you want future proof, an AXE FX3 with FC6 or 12 foot control is the only best choice (even though no touch interface, the computer interface is really good). The Quad Cortex would be my next choice, but its not out yet. After that.... I would consider the Headrush or Zoom G11. GT1000 or FM3 if you plan to computer edit and rearrange your patches on the PC. Maybe a Helix if your ears like their amp modeling. (Although I bet the next gen Helix is right around the corner.) Going down in price further, Hotone Ampero or Pod Go, you are missing midi out, and/or touch.
 
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