Gtrjunior
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Digital Modelers
- Thread starter Gtrjunior
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Gtrjunior
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What I've learned over the past few months is that price no longer separates modelers by tone. I was expecting the GT1000 to have more clarity, resolution, and ultimate realism than the GT100. I was expecting there to be greater punch, dynamics, and feel. None of this was the case, to my ears. (What they did do was add a resonance control to the amps so they have more thump. ) Certainly the 1000 has better effects, more routing options, but nothing that an audience would hear. People on TGP rave about how its the best feeling modeler, how they dumped COSM and now have AIRD. That is all BS. I am 100% convinced that people judge these based on how much they cost.
To get your sound with any of them, it comes down to using EQ and IRs to present the sound how you want it.
Your AA12, based on what I've heard, will sound as good as the Kemper. It may not have the exact EQ/IR settings of Kemper profiles, but I'm confident it can be dialed for the same "realism".
The Kemper may make it easier to dial in, but I suspect its a complicated beast.
Price is not a determinant of tone any more. I would seriously recommend a Pod Go, or a Zoom G11/G6 (if the presets were better). If you dont use many effects, you dont need a "flagship" product.
I am seriously considering getting another G11 and be done with it, don't know if I want to deep dive into Fractal land.
It is difficult to measure and compare Kemper to a modeler unit because they are different. The Kemper is a solid unit and as long as you have access to amps you wish to profile if they are not available in the unit then it is in a sense timeless. It is the most amp like when it comes to tweaking. Where people miss it is thinking that a profile is an exact replica of the entire amp being profiled and it is not. It is a snapshot. If people understood this better I think it would help in some cases. Imagine going to a movie and taking a picture. You have a snapshot of the movie at that time. You don't have the whole movie.
You can get excellent sounds out of all these gadgets. I think it just comes down to the process of getting those sounds. I am old school and not a super techy person though I am getting a bit better. I like the Kemper for its versatility in how it can be used and the way you go about using it and getting sounds etc. It was the easiest to me and the most familiar to work compared to what I was used to working for decades. I will always prefer amps over anything else but the Kemper (for me) is a wonderful addition. I do want to get an Axe someday. I will probably jump when the new one comes out whenever that is. Why? Just to have one and to have something to tweak on and see what I can come up with. I know the tweak ability will drive me absolutely bonkers but I am a glutton for punishment...lol. One day... but in the meantime, I got amps and a Kemper, HX Stomp to mess with.
You can get excellent sounds out of all these gadgets. I think it just comes down to the process of getting those sounds. I am old school and not a super techy person though I am getting a bit better. I like the Kemper for its versatility in how it can be used and the way you go about using it and getting sounds etc. It was the easiest to me and the most familiar to work compared to what I was used to working for decades. I will always prefer amps over anything else but the Kemper (for me) is a wonderful addition. I do want to get an Axe someday. I will probably jump when the new one comes out whenever that is. Why? Just to have one and to have something to tweak on and see what I can come up with. I know the tweak ability will drive me absolutely bonkers but I am a glutton for punishment...lol. One day... but in the meantime, I got amps and a Kemper, HX Stomp to mess with.
Its like a snapshot of a movie, with caveats. Its like taking a picture of the screen, but when you look at your picture, you see all the female actors are greyed out. It can't take a snapshot of the entire screen, only the amp/cab portion.
This creates a situation where there is still a ton of programming. Most signature sounds are because of the effects used. That means that someone has to do alot of programming, either a profile seller or the end user.
Gtrjunior has his mind set on the Kemper. People want what they want, but if he dislikes the AA12 because of its complexity, is he going to get along any better with the Kemper? I don't know. My understanding is that he plays in church. I can almost guarantee there is a P&W collection for the Pod Go, that he could buy, install, and be ready to go.
Gtrjunior
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The church is something that I am just beginning to do. I play in a club gigging rock band as well.
I’m not sure if you saw my question in an earlier post, but I don’t believe there is ANY unit that can clone the FX portion of a tone.
The QC can profile dirt pedals but not modulation or time based fx.
I get that you’re saying that no matter, a tone is a combination of many components like fx as well as an amp/ cab. But I don’t think there is any way around having to program fx be it digitally or with a real amp/cab
Call me crazy but if I am seeking a core tone I don't want any effects. I want the amp. if I can capture the cab and room vibe that is a huge blessing to me. I have effects. The Kemper comes with effects. I don't know of any product that captures Eric Johnson fully and releases his tones at the push of a button. Expecting such a thing is unrealistic in my opinion. So yes, if the proverbial women on screen are effects then I guess they are grayed out until you dial some effects in.
Gtrjunior The HX Stomp has a Praise and Worship loaded option but I think you want a straighter forward amp solution that you can tweak and add effects to and use in your band/church situation.
Gtrjunior
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Correct. My issue isn’t with dialing in fx parameters per se. Its more about needing to learn how to deep edit eq. I really need to learn what a parametric eq is all about.
The hi/lo shelf, hi/lo pass, peaking, gain only options are what I really don’t understand.
As of now I’ve just been copying what Leon Todd is doing with his gear. It’s working very well but I’m still not understanding the deeper workings.
It’s like learning to copy someone’s guitar solo but still not understanding the theory behind the note choices.
They are like the EQ knobs on your amp, except you know exactly what they are doing.
B M T are like a 3 band eq. Resonance and Presence make it 5 bands of eq.
Resonance is low frequencies < 120 Hz.
Presence is high frequencies > 8KHz.
Bass is probably centered around 400Hz.
Mid is centered somewhere around 1- 3KHz.
Treble is in the 2-5KHz region.
The center frequencies of amplifier EQ bands will vary by design. Its what makes amps sound different.
A 10-band eq pedal is twice as many adjustment points.
You could keep all your amp controls at "5" and adjust everything with a 10 band EQ pedal in the loop.
People use 10-band eq pedals to give them more accurate control of frequencies.
Parametric EQ is an eq band that is not fixed. It can be "swept" to whatever frequency you want.
The "Q" control is how wide the parametric band is. A narrower band is more surgical and will have a noticable effect. A wider Q covers more space in the frequency.
A shelving EQ will adjust the frequencies above or below a certain point. Low pass filters (LPF) and high pass filters (HPF) are shelving controls. A LPF cuts off high frequencies. A HPF cuts off low freqencies. Sometimes shelving EQ allow you to adjust the slope.
Typical amp EQ controls can be simulated using a parametric EQ. You just have to set the center frequencies and Q correctly.
When you start custom crafting eq using GEQ and PEQ, there is a good chance you wont sound as good live. Real amps are tested to sound good on stage. Tweaking the eq curve when playing direct is what a music producer does in the studio to get everything to sound good in the mix. Solo channels often have mids boosted to stand out.
That is about all there is to it.
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Gtrjunior
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Great explanation. Thanks!
Gtrjunior
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What is “gain only” and “peaking” for?
Gain only means a straight level boost.
When you boost an EQ band, you are increasing the level of only part of the signal. A gain boost means increasing the level of the whole signal.
In digital modelers, its possible to run into clipping if the signal gets too hot anywhere in the chain. For instance, if you boost several of the mid frequencies in an EQ block, you might hear clipping, which means in the eq block you will need to reduce gain before it goes on to the next block. In most EQ blocks, there is a level (or gain) adjustment.
Likewise, if you cut the mids, you might find that the signal could benefit from make up gain.
In general, its good to keep the levels near the point where digital clipping might occur (but doesnt). This is because it represents greater dynamic range. If you are running levels at only half of the dynamic range, you will lose some resolution. This used to matter ALOT when systems were 16 or 20 bit. Now that everything is 24 bit, there is a little bit of leeway.
Peaking, I think is referring to the peak gain a meter will reach. On a mixer, when the lights go into the red it has peaked and will distort. You want to keep below that. I don't know the context it was used in. I believe the Fractal may have an auto level feature which will take gain to its maximum without clipping.
Gtrjunior
New member
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. This helps a lot!!
After returning the Zoom G11 and Boss GT1000 and now playing with my old GT100, I've been suffering "withdrawl" for lack of a better word. I was happy with my tones for many years, but experiencing some new things has put me in another place.
The Zoom G11, even though the presets are really bad, I always had the feeling that the modeling sounded great. With EQ blocks I was able to dial in my tones and make it sound better than the GT100. I really liked having an array of encoders assigned to all the EQ controls. I also really liked how easy it was to import and audition IRs.
The GT1000 was a let down from a sound and UI perspective. While I could hear how they had changed the COSM models, given them a tighter bass and more thump, the top end of the notes still sounded sterile. I used all my EQ tricks and got it sounding only marginally better than the GT100. The user interface made me sad.
So where do I go from here? Because I know I like the G11, despite all its shortcomings, I ordered another one. Something about the interface and the sounds together made me happy.
Fractal land will have to wait. I don't want to invest in that level of tweaking and "boutiqueness" at this time. When the Quad Cortex has shaken out, that may be the next move.
The Zoom G11, even though the presets are really bad, I always had the feeling that the modeling sounded great. With EQ blocks I was able to dial in my tones and make it sound better than the GT100. I really liked having an array of encoders assigned to all the EQ controls. I also really liked how easy it was to import and audition IRs.
The GT1000 was a let down from a sound and UI perspective. While I could hear how they had changed the COSM models, given them a tighter bass and more thump, the top end of the notes still sounded sterile. I used all my EQ tricks and got it sounding only marginally better than the GT100. The user interface made me sad.
So where do I go from here? Because I know I like the G11, despite all its shortcomings, I ordered another one. Something about the interface and the sounds together made me happy.
Fractal land will have to wait. I don't want to invest in that level of tweaking and "boutiqueness" at this time. When the Quad Cortex has shaken out, that may be the next move.
Nice! I'm sure you'll like it.
I just researched it, and the interface looks pretty slick.
