Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

wildstar,

Thanks for the clips man! I like the clarity of the HVV because it seems it would allow you to have total control at the amp with EQ...where the JB dominates with a fat midrange and tubby sound.

JeffB,

What was my set up recommendation? 3/32" bridge and poles flush?

I am finding I get the most tonal complients at gigs when I use the BB Pros or the time I had the Duncan C-5 in the bridge which reminds me of a hotter BB Pro. I am not sure what to do about the BB Pro - keep it or replace. Not sure how much more versatility I would gain.

You think we could find a pickup with the same crunch but maybe some fatter mids and smoother? The C-5 is the closest I've heard but it has about the same mids.

Another option is a fat PAF such as something in the 9-9.5k range. I tried a Duncan JB and WCR Shredder....both great but too hot for this guitar and thick....too thick for the LP.

The Rio Grande BBQ is nice as well....hotter.

Something similar to the BB Pro is the WCR Goodwood...fat 9.5k PAF.

Funny, I knew a guy who played in a heavy modern rock band and after trying many pickups settled on Burstbucker Pros.

Rich
 
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Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

Maybe a Custom/59 Hybrid with the A2 magnet.

Should be about 11.5k of midrange goodness.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

Hey papersoul, think about an Lindy Fralin Unbucker. The hotter wound screw coil dominates the other. So the sound is so much clearer and more single coil like than an normal 9 or 9.5 k Humbucker. This also makes it possible to go higher into the 10k range with getting too thick. I have a C-5 which is now in my electronic bin, since i recieved my custom rewound 9k (4k/5k) Unbucker.
The C-5 was too muddy and compressed in comparison. Next thing i gonna try is to put a A4 into the C-5!
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

wildstar said:
Ask and Ye Shall Receive! Just uploaded:

http://www.justinsamaha.com/JB.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/VHotPAF.mp3

I considered giving the clips anonymous names, but it just seemed screamingly obvious which was which, so I didn't bother.

I was kind of shocked by the difference. I could swear an oath that I recorded with the exact same setup, but the difference is so great that it makes me wonder... The JB clip was recorded two weeks ago, the V Hot PAF about 15 minutes ago. The strings were changed between recordings, and were about the same age. It was recorded direct through a Pod XT, 100 watt Marshall Plexi model, no EQ or compression after recording. The levels were matched as closely as possible and normalized before converting to MP3.

The more I use the VHPAF, the more I like it. Recorded, it sounds so balanced, crisp, and hi-fi. The JB, in contrast, sounds fat and big (which I love!) - but kind of ugly in the upper mids. Exactly as many would predict, I think.

Wow. Interesting. But still, YMMV - this is me playing my guitar through my recording rig, and then smashed down into an MP3. Hardly scientific!

I'm installing my new Air Zone/Air Norton combo tomorrrow or Thursday, and will record the same riff again. I'm hoping the Air Zone might bring together in peace and harmony the fatness of the JB and sweet, clear crunchiness of the VHPAF! stay tuned...
Click to expand...


Nice clips....I wonder how the VHPAF holds up under higher gain chug-chug-chug ala Seek and Destroy or something.

I love the way lower output pickups sound for classic rock and most rock but they seem to be missing clarity/tightess/punch when it comes to metal.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

hamerfan said:
Hey papersoul, think about an Lindy Fralin Unbucker. The hotter wound screw coil dominates the other. So the sound is so much clearer and more single coil like than an normal 9 or 9.5 k Humbucker. This also makes it possible to go higher into the 10k range with getting too thick. I have a C-5 which is now in my electronic bin, since i recieved my custom rewound 9k (4k/5k) Unbucker.
The C-5 was too muddy and compressed in comparison. Next thing i gonna try is to put a A4 into the C-5!
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks! Do you know how to get a hold of Lindy?


I see an unbucker on ebay but it isn't the 4/5 split you have...

Do you think it handles hard rock as well as the C-5? I bet my Burstbucker Pro is similar because I think it has the uneven wind.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

JeffB said:
If I wanted a strictly Blues/Classic Rock Guitar I'd definitely go with any of the pups in "my" top 3 for that midrange "honk" and smoothness. But since most of the stuff I play is harder rock (insert obligatory "see my sig" comment), I prefer something a little more crunchy sounding, like the BB pros or Duncan 59. The BB pros "crunch" a little better than a Seth/Antuiquity, etc.

As an example, Thin Lizzy: Live and Dangerous: Brian Robertsons tone, Fat, yet crunchy. Scott Gorhams tone: smoother and more biting. Granted the rigs are just totally different for the two guitar players but its a good comparison "in one place" to hear what I want/need. Again. Thin Lizzy Live: Life: Sykes more crunchy rhythm tones vs/ Scotts smoother sound (actually a 500T nails Sykes tone on that album)

They (BBPs) do smooth out tho as the gain gets higher (too much depending on the individual guitar), and cleans are excellent. I'm really starting to like them thanks to your setup recommendation. :)
Click to expand...

Jeff.....didn't you say your buddy has the BBs in his LP and play modern rock? I know a local guy with huge heavy tones and uses a stock R7 with BBs. My BB Pros rock pretty hard and I have to say contrary to what you mentioned....I can get great classic rock tones! :dance:
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

papersoul said:
Jeff.....didn't you say your buddy has the BBs in his LP and play modern rock? I know a local guy with huge heavy tones and uses a stock R7 with BBs. My BB Pros rock pretty hard and I have to say contrary to what you mentioned....I can get great classic rock tones! :dance:
Click to expand...

I have a friend who does have them too and loves them. He actually plays alot of classic rock...

I guess I should quantify what I mean...to me the BB's in general are more of that 50's, 60s, early 70's sound....Kossof...Page...Gibbons type of vibe...more honky and with some bite...

The sound I'm looking for is the next generation sounds...that even wind sound like Angus, or the Schenkers,Mathias, Thin Lizzy... the 59 and 57s typify this sound...It's a bit rounder....less honk...yet still crunchy..mostly because these guys were using for the most part more current Gibsons at the time...thus with current pickups which by then weren't wound as "haphazardly" like those 50's and early 60s PAFs. (The Gibson 57s are basically what the pups should have sounded like back then...had they been wound to "spec")

The BB pro's crunch pretty good, but the high end twang/bite is just not my preference. I prefer that slightly less mids and creamier high end of an even wind vs. the honky mids and biting highs of the uneven wind (which most PAF fans prefer).

So if I was going for Zeppelin or Kossof type sound...or playing alot of blues/blues rock, I think the BB (or any uneven wind) would be the better pickup for that..it will work for what I play, but it's not exactly what I'm going for/want...
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

Jeff, I tend to play a lot of hard rock with this LP....modern heavy rock and am not sure if I might rather have something with an even wind and a bit more heat. Any thoughts on a replacement?
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

rguser said:
thanks!
yes they are very different. could you compare VHPAF to a more open SD like screamin demon or seth or else?
Click to expand...

I don't have any other SD's lying aroudn at the moment. I'm installing an Air Zone in the bridge tonight, and will post a clip of that.

If the AZ doesn't do it for me, I'll try the Breed. After that... back to SD's! I'll try a Custom (which I'm itching to try out) and maybe even a Custom 5. I'll find some pups I love if it's the last thing I ever do! :laugh2:

After hearing the JB back-to-back with the VHPAF, I don't think I can go back to a JB, at least not with this guitar. :ugh1:
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

Wildstar, keep us posted in this thread! Thanks!

Jeff, I think the bottom line is most pickups will work in many situations with the right amp tweaks.

You may want to try the Gibson Angus pickup - apparently a 9.3 or hotter similar to a BB Pro but an even wind.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

wildstar said:
I don't have any other SD's lying aroudn at the moment. I'm installing an Air Zone in the bridge tonight, and will post a clip of that.

If the AZ doesn't do it for me, I'll try the Breed. After that... back to SD's! I'll try a Custom (which I'm itching to try out) and maybe even a Custom 5. I'll find some pups I love if it's the last thing I ever do! :laugh2:
After hearing the JB back-to-back with the VHPAF, I don't think I can go back to a JB, at least not with this guitar. :ugh1:
Click to expand...
I have TZ in my RG and love it. it's good for what it's intended.
I have Custom5 in my carvin neckthru and love it, too. it's open and bright.
I know why I don't like JB: mids higher than lows.
that means low strings sound throaty and mid and high strings sound nasal.
when you have scooped mids, low strings are deep and mid and high notes are bright, as in all paf kind pickups including VHPAF and custom5
when you have mids lower then lows and highs lower then mids like TZ and AZ,
lows are deep, too. mid and high notes are smooth.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

rguser said:
I know why I don't like JB: mids higher than lows.
that means low strings sound throaty and mid and high strings sound nasal.
when you have scooped mids, low strings are deep and mid and high notes are bright, as in all paf kind pickups.
Click to expand...


DING DING DING...we have a winner! :D

I Like the JB... but only in Strats...in a set/neck through guitar (especially those with a maple cap) it just accentuates frequencies that are already dominant...its overkill...and then the sound become brittle. At least to me it does.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

papersoul said:
Jeff, I think the bottom line is most pickups will work in many situations with the right amp tweaks.
Click to expand...

I think an amp can help compensate to achive an acceptable tone, yes. However that doesn't mean its THE sound I (or anyone else) would want. Don't get me wrong, BBs are some of my fave pups, and by far the best uneven winds I've tried, its just not exactly what I want though I'd have no issue leaving them in the guitar if I was unable for some reason to try something else

You may want to try the Gibson Angus pickup - apparently a 9.3 or hotter similar to a BB Pro but an even wind.
Click to expand...

I believe its hotter than that??...up near the 500T, IIRC. I have not heard one, but from what I've gathered its basically "Angus or nothing" with that pickup. Hell he did fine all those years with regular ol' Gibson pups...reckon thats good enough for me too :D I would like to ty one though. A ocal shop had an Angus SG in inventory last time I went there...I should go give it a whirl sometime and back to back it with a 61 Reissue.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

where can i find a good comparison between custom5 and screamin demon?
the duncan sound samples don't include custom5.
is screaming demon harsher on the top end? that's my main concern.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

JeffB said:
DING DING DING...we have a winner! :D

I Like the JB... but only in Strats...in a set/neck through guitar (especially those with a maple cap) it just accentuates frequencies that are already dominant...its overkill...and then the sound become brittle. At least to me it does.
Click to expand...


I've heard the same thing.....I just can't get into a JB in a Les Paul....or at least the ones that I've tried.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

More clips up! I put in the Air Zone (bridge) and Air Norton (neck) combo last night, and boy am I happy! As soon as I plugged in and strummed a chord I thought: "THAT'S what I'm talking about!" Definitely my favorite of the combos I've tried so far (Duncan Designed Jazz/JB, American-made Jazz/JB, Eric Johnson Custom neck & bridge, VPAF Neck & V Hot PAF bridge.)

Here's the same riff as the other clips with the AZ pup:

http://www.justinsamaha.com/AirZoneRiff.mp3

And the previous clips, for reference:

http://www.justinsamaha.com/JB.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/VHotPAF.mp3

My server has seen a lot of hits, so I guess folks are curious. Here are the clips I've been using to make my own comparisons. Same amp model and settings, intentionally fairly low-gain. Please excuse my pedestrian gutiar playing - I'm just improvising, and most people around here can play circles around me! But for the curious (and forgiving):

http://www.justinsamaha.com/AirZone2.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/AirZone3.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/AirNortonNeck1.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/AirNortonNeck2.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/VHPAFBridge1.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/VHPAFBridge2.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/VPAFNeck1.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/VPAFNeck2.mp3
http://www.justinsamaha.com/VPAFNeck3.mp3

I am still hearing a bit of that odd "fizziness" in the high end with the AZ/AN combo, and people have mentioned that they always hear this with DiMarzio. If I don't totally fall in love with these pups (I've only had about 30 minutes to play around with them), then it will be time to go back to Seymour Duncan! If anyone has any SD recommendations for me based on what you've learned about my tastes, feel free to chime in. I'm thinking 59 or Jazz neck, and Custom or Custom Custom bridge.

Cheers
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

ranalli said:
I've heard the same thing.....I just can't get into a JB in a Les Paul....or at least the ones that I've tried.
Click to expand...

I've heard ONE and only ONE Les Paul that I actually like it in....An all Mahogany Custom with a ebony board....That guitars owner said the axe was dark sounding to begin with and I think the JB opened that particular one up.

I put one in my first Les Paul Standard, and was back to the shop in a couple days to have it ripped out. Through my 800 it was a brittle icepick if I got any kind of volume on it (low volume it was just OK). Put a Custom in and never looked back. I've heard them in prolly a dozen Les Pauls and god knows how many other set/neck through guitars since, and it's just so....not my thing :D

The best thing about a JB, IMO is the "cut through the mix" potential...in the right guitar it will crunch nice, and screams nice on the leads...but I feel it's best suited to bolt on neck guitars.
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

wildstar said:
More clips up! I put in the Air Zone (bridge) and Air Norton (neck) combo last night...
Click to expand...

I'll take a listen tonite when I get home from work and to better speakers...I'm curious, as I have a brand new AZ and AN sitting around that nobody will buy even for a steal of a price ;) :D
 
Re: Dimario Virtual PAF - thumbs up

Cool clips. I have to say, I'm partial to the VHPAF/VPAF in these. I like the more open sound.
 
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