DiMarzio Haters - Why?

[Breogan]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Soundwise I prefer SD because to me they sound more vintage than DiMarzio.

Well, my DM Paf Classics and the Blue Velvet sound very vintage for me. While my JB sounds quite modern and processed. But this example it's old as Earth.

Reffering to what somebody else said, all my aftermarket pickups are sturdy built: DM, Duncans and TvJones. About not enought wax potting... that's not enought if the pickup gets anoying feedback. Seth's aren't wax potted and they do not get anoying feedback.

Reffering to DM business practics, I don't find them loyal and probably I won't buy any other pickup from them. Meanwhile I'll stick with the ones I have since I don't have 200$ to spend to replace them.

 

[Jester700]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I have no problems with DiMarzio what so ever. So they patented double creem bobbins. This happens in the business world all the time.

Yeah, but in this case, I have 2 issues:
1) They DIDN'T create the double cream, mirror finish, or PAF term. Those were concepts already in use and they just saw an opportunity to be grabby. This is something ANYONE could have done, but most people thought "why do that? It isn't mine - it's in common use". This seems to be their SOP these days, and it DOES give them a business advantage. So I just try to partially cancel that advantage by swearing off their pickups out of principle.

2) Because of this, things become more of a pain for us, the pickup buyers. Prefer Duncans but want double cream? BZZT! Now you have to jump through hoops for them. Want mismatched coils or mirror finish? Sorry, no choices - you have to buy DiMarzio or pay twice as much for a custom job.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

.....And that´s something that (I´d guess) about 5.5 billlion people still need to learn: As soon as you add capitalism as a business-model into your society, the only votes that count are the ones you cast with your wallet.

And judging by that, I´ve got a few conclusions:

1. this kind of business practise is strongly supported by the masses
2. the whole world LOVES China and other oppressive regimes
3. Nobody cares whether they´ll have work anymore when they´re 40, becasue they´re actively paying for those jobs to go to China, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia et. al
...

I have no problems with DiMarzio what so ever. So they patented double creem bobbins. This happens in the business world all the time. ....

The general public being oblivious to these practices and /or saying "So what" is exactly the reason that these things can happen in the first place, and continue to happen with rising frequency.

I rest my case

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

DiMarzio registering double-cream bobbins = stealing?

I was pointing out practise versus principle.

An analogy.

 

[ranalli]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Hmmm....

- I can't stand Dimarzio's line. They just have too many pickups that are too similar. I mean, come on, PAF Pro & PAF Joe. PAF & PAF Classic. Where does it end? :smack:
Duncan's line is broken down and organized smarter, which is better for consumers. Best of all, most of their pups are very different and if they are similar you will know why they are still different. It seems that Duncan focus their pups to a realativley small but effective selection.

Dimarzio has a very smart line...it's just different. So what they use PAF in the name for a few different pickups all of which are slightly different...what would you name them??

Maybe they should name their pickup something like "Screamin Demon" so everyone is mislead into thinking it's something it's not.

Seriously, the descriptions on their site are very much dead on and their names are no more non-sensical than Duncans.....any smart consumer would read the descriptions anyway.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

And judging by tha, I´ve got a few conclusions:

1. this kind of business practise is strongly supported by the masses
2. the whole world LOVES China and other oppressive regimes
3. Nobody cares whether they´ll have work anymore when they´re 40, becasue they´re actively paying for those jobs to go to China, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia et. al

Do some of you really think Levis are still made in the US? Or Nike ever was? Or almost any "American" brand of mass-product still is?

Absolutely!


On the Levi's note, they packed up the Arkansas factory and sent it south to Mexico, or Guatemala. When I worked at Penney's I went looking for an Honest to Goodness Made in USA pair of Levi's. I found 2 out of, I don't know how many, and they were the style older 501's that are shrink to fit. On that note I try to buy goods that are made in US, or European made whenever possible.

Luke

 

[Sniper-V]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Dimarzio has a very smart line...it's just different. So what they use PAF in the name for a few different pickups all of which are slightly different...what would you name them??

Maybe they should name their pickup something like "Screamin Demon" so everyone is mislead into thinking it's something it's not.

Seriously, the descriptions on their site are very much dead on and their names are no more non-sensical than Duncans.....any smart consumer would read the descriptions anyway.

Tell me, explain what is "Humbuker from Hell"....
The "Screamin Demon" name was probably chosen by the artist it was made after...

In my experiance in music retail. I have found that the average consumer is in fact not very "smart" (not really a bad thing) and actually have a harder time picking out a Dimarzio as compared to Duncans.

Wanna hear smart. Duncans introduce their Matched Sets, perfect for those "extra smart individuals"...

Sniper-V

 

[ranalli]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Tell me, explain what is "Humbuker from Hell"....
The "Screamin Demon" name was probably chosen by the artist it was made after...

In my experiance in music retail. I have found that the average consumer is in fact not very "smart" (not really a bad thing) and actually have a harder time picking out a Dimarzio as compared to Duncans.

Wanna hear smart. Duncans introduce their Matched Sets, perfect for those "extra smart individuals"...

Sniper-V

Humbucker From Hell and Screamin Demon are both crummy names for those pickups. The point is neither company is better than the other when it comes to their pickup lines.

 

[sosomething]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Stock Epiphone pickups don't break very easily. Does that mean they have as good of construction as Seymour Duncan?

I'll say it:

Yes.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that there is a whole lot of variance in pickup construction quality. There isn't. As I said before, there's about $2.50 worth of materials in any passive humbucking guitar pickup, regardless of who made it. There are certainly differences in sound quality between pickups, but that is purely subjective and personal and has little to do with construction quality.

 

[Stringmachine]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Well, my DM Paf Classics and the Blue Velvet sound very vintage for me. While my JB sounds quite modern and processed. But this example it's old as Earth.

Well, that your opinion. I got mine. Thats the good thing about this forum. As always when it comes to sound there are no right or wrong. Choose the one you prefer, not what everybody else thinks is good.

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I'll say it:

Yes.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that there is a whole lot of variance in pickup construction quality. There isn't. As I said before, there's about $2.50 worth of materials in any passive humbucking guitar pickup, regardless of who made it. There are certainly differences in sound quality between pickups, but that is purely subjective and personal and has little to do with construction quality.

Just because they use the same parts, doesn't mean that they are put together the same way. Yes, the principle is the same. But if the SD has cleaner winds, tighter fitting parts, and doesn't have wax slung all over it, then yes, they are made better. No, the other may not fail, but if you offered them for the same price and let people take them apart and look at them, 90% or more would by the SD pup - even the ones who knew nothing about guitars - because they could tell it was made better.

 

[sosomething]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Just because they use the same parts, doesn't mean that they are put together the same way. Yes, the principle is the same. But if the SD has cleaner winds, tighter fitting parts, and doesn't have wax slung all over it, then yes, they are made better. No, the other may not fail, but if you offered them for the same price and let people take them apart and look at them, 90% or more would by the SD pup - even the ones who knew nothing about guitars - because they could tell it was made better.

I'm sure you're right. The next DiMarzio I buy is getting taken apart so I can see these sloppy winds, loose parts, and gobs of unecessary wax.

 

[ranalli]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

but if you offered them for the same price and let people take them apart and look at them, 90% or more would by the SD pup - even the ones who knew nothing about guitars - because they could tell it was made better.

No they wouldn't.


Most people could care less who has better winds etc.....Duncan doesn't offer half the tones that Dimarzio has and vice versa. Nobody really cares about construction unless it's going to fail....they care about tone.

If I want the JB tone I get the JB....if I want the Super Distortion tone I get the Super Distortion.


People get fooled all the time into think that better construction is necessarily more reliable, better sounding etc.....it's not.


I could see someone opening up two pickups for someone that wanted to buy a Dimarzio and the conversation would go like:


"Well here's the two pickups...notice this one is made much nicer.."

"Well I know that one is made nicer but it's not really the sound I was looking for...."

"Yeah but look at all the extra wax on the one that you want....'

"But I can't even see that before you took it apart.......I mean are these actually going to fail on me??"

"Well....um......no....never heard of that happening before really...."

"Oh....well then I'm going for the Dimarzio then cause that's the sound I want for this guitar"

 

[YJM_Rocks]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

They already have :laugh2:

I meant covers, not bobbins.

 

[Boston Joe]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I've been using the Dimarzio HS-3s and HS-2s for years-- no complaints, though their construction is, let's just say, slighter than that of a SD.

Now, I did have an early 80's Dimarzio PAF Pro (I believe it was the Pro) that not only sounded brittle, tinny, weak and nasal (in a bad way), but when I opened it up to inspect it, it had no bobbins-- just windings encased in paper. There may have been a little wax.

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

No they wouldn't.


Most people could care less who has better winds etc.....Duncan doesn't offer half the tones that Dimarzio has and vice versa. Nobody really cares about construction unless it's going to fail....they care about tone.

If I want the JB tone I get the JB....if I want the Super Distortion tone I get the Super Distortion.


People get fooled all the time into think that better construction is necessarily more reliable, better sounding etc.....it's not.


I could see someone opening up two pickups for someone that wanted to buy a Dimarzio and the conversation would go like:


"Well here's the two pickups...notice this one is made much nicer.."

"Well I know that one is made nicer but it's not really the sound I was looking for...."

"Yeah but look at all the extra wax on the one that you want....'

"But I can't even see that before you took it apart.......I mean are these actually going to fail on me??"

"Well....um......no....never heard of that happening before really...."

"Oh....well then I'm going for the Dimarzio then cause that's the sound I want for this guitar"

I meant "tone aside." We already agreed that there are differences in sound quality. Notice the people "who knew nothing about guitars." I was merely commenting on construction quality. I prefer the sound of Duncans, but I know a lot of people like DiMarzios. Some people care about the time and care that were put into making a product, which usually means the company cares about you - something SD shows time and time again.

No one is telling you not to buy DiMarzios. They just asked why we don't like them.

 

[Breogan]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Well, that your opinion. I got mine. Thats the good thing about this forum. As always when it comes to sound there are no right or wrong. Choose the one you prefer, not what everybody else thinks is good.

Everybody can have an opinion about something which it's as subjetive as tone it is . What I've tried to state it's that both companies have a wide production line, and they try to have lot's of different tones to choose from. Some of their pickups are build to reproduce the 60's tones, some to reproduce the 80's hair metal and some other to create modern nu-metal.

That's why I think you can't give adjetives like "modern" and "vintage" to a whole production line.

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I had once a SD pup in my Ibanez but it didn´t really fit there tonewise. I also need DMZ pups for my Ibanez because of the dimension of the pup. No looking screws out of the pup for example. If I buy a SD pup, tweak him (make the screws shorter) and then I´d see it´s not my tone then I can´t sell it easily.

I love the SD tone many User here get in the tips and clips section!!

Edit: I would try SD pups in another guitar!! No doubt.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I like some of Dimarzio's stuff. I've been a follower of the Virtual PAF set for years. They react well to touch and they are very unique to my ears, they almost walk the fine line between a single coil and humbucker. The bridge never gets muddy through distortion, the middle switch offers just the right amount of shimmer and fullness clean and the neck has a bit of that hollowbody thick airy type tone.

I never saw anything poor about the construction at all. The pickup is as solid as anything else I've purchased. The pickups are completely noiseless, but don't sound the least bit "sterile" to my ears. While I don't necessarily love that they got a trademark on something as stupid as the color of a pickup, it's not going to discourage me from using one of their pickups when it fits the tonal signature I'm looking for. Oh yeah, and regarding of the wax potting complaints posted here, I have never experienced these "microphonic" problems that others have (I've gotten up to hard rock gain levels and not a single whine was ever emitted). I've played several other "vintage" style pickups that have posed a problem when stacking overdrives, but the Virtual PAF has been faithful.

I could tell you guys that I liked them and that they fit what I was looking for in a humbucker even more than the Duncan Antiquities I owned a year or two ago, but I don't want any buddies here droppin' like flies :laugh2:

 

[FretFire]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

No one is telling you not to buy DiMarzios. They just asked why we don't like them.

+1.