DiMarzio Haters - Why?

[JeffB]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

If you're going to discuss DiMarzio's trademark practices, it might be instructive to know other pickup companies engaged in the same practice (with the same lawyer).

Big business sucks...I know what ya mean Evan..I'm involved in it on a daily basis...both for a living and at one time as my main hobby... lotta competition out there for the $, and when laywers get involved, well..it just gets worse...makes a fun hobby a chore at times.

Since music and pups is not my business, and my (much needed these days) form of relaxation/entertainment, I try to detach myself from the "political" BS. Life's too short for me to get worked up about bobbins and patents, when I have much bigger fish to fry..but I certainly understand how those with something at stake in the game would.

It's gotta feel good though to see that you (the people at Duncan) have a such a loyal fanbase

 

[lordcliffton]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Related side Note: WD Music Products (Patent of the Lipstick Tube pup) and Ruby Tubes /Magic Parts (Legal action against Paul Ruby Amplification, where it´s made very clear to the consumer that there is no relation, and where the name is in fact registered for supplies and not amplifiers...) do the same thing, and receive the same treatment from me...
I used to semi-endorse Ruby tubes and their SP12CEL Speakers until this happened....it took all of 2 weeks for me to switch to GT Tubes and Eminence Speakers...Not with ME, guys, and not with my money, either

You do realise that GT are merely relabeled tubes, right?? :wave: That means they could be made by Ruby, Sovtek, JJ, or practically & literally anyone. Most times you can even see the actual maker's original tag on the tube(I've seen 'Sovtek' markings countless times) as GT only paints the big red "GT" on it, boxes it, & ships it out as their own, or as a Fender tube. Mesa does the same exact thing.

Just thought I'd point that out to you in case you wanted to spend your money elsewhere & avoid the Ruby issue altogether.:burnout:




As for the pups, I'll use whatever I want that will get me the tone I'm looking for-old or new, creme, mirrored chrome, red & blue, or just plain white. I hold no allegiance to any one company. And why should I? In my eyes, it doesn't make that much difference in the big scheme of things. The customer is always right, & I am a customer, & if I want something specific, I'll buy it. Period.

But the whole trademarking of stuff is really petty.

In all honesty, I like Dimarzio's stuff. It is what I am familiar with & have used the most. I'm not saying that 1 is better than the other, and I'm definitely not saying that "I'll A)Never buy Duncans or B)Always buy Dimarzios''. Not in the slightest. But I have used mainly Dimarzio's & they have always held up construction-wise with perfection & met or exceeded all my tonal needs. From the Dual Sound(great sounding classic pup), to the Tone Zone(very cool modern tones), to the Air Zone(like a vintage Tone Zone with less mid hump & bass than the original) or the Fred(which totally exceeded my expectations-controllable feedback! How cool is that!?). They all have a use & sound really good to my ears.


The only thing that really bugs me about pups at all is that there are 2 seperate spacings. :gurmpy: That is BS in my mind, because there is no real advantage of 1 over the other tonewise-it is mainly a 'practical' thing. That said, I would love it if all pups were F-Spaced, simply because all my guitars have trems. However, if there was 1 spacing that worked for everything besides bar magnets(as cool as they DO look), I would buy it. I think that guitars themself need to be standardized somewhat and that would bring the entire musical community together on at least one level-even if it were only on string spacing.

my 2 ¢
peace

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

And LC has entered the building w/ his essay posts!

What up bro?

 

[Archer_of_Fish]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I heard that they patented the use of mis-matched coils too, so if you want to have mis-matched coils on a DUncan you gotta either do it yourself or splash out for a CS bucker, that sucks.

And the double cream thing just baffles me (how they managed to patent it, that is).

I have no issues with the pickups though.

they dont have a patent or trademark on mis matched coils.

 

[lordcliffton]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

And LC has entered the building w/ his essay posts!

What up bro?

hey man,, just reading through this post,, very informative for sure. I've learned alot just from reading this entire thread! People are very passionate about their gear choices, no?

I do think it's BS about the color & the 'paf' thing..



But as for the Lipstick Tube pup design being patented, well... I think it's fair justice simply because of this :Dan Armstrong was the inventer of the Lipstick Tube pup(and that cool lucite see-thru Armstrong guitar as well), and his SON is Kent Armstong.


(query to self-I wonder if anyone else actually knows this? Funnily enough, I just remembered it myself!!!)

Cont'd...
Yes!!! The very same guy(and company owner) that finally patented the design, is a progenitor of the original designer. Therefore it should rightfully fall into his hands and all the monies thereof(less licensing fees, of course), since he is the rightful heir to the LIpstick Tube pup throne. No?

btw-I've heard both the Kent Armstrong & a Seymour Duncan & the Kent is superior sounding to my ears.

Simply because he has the same lawyer as Dimarzio,, well I suppose that he was gired to lock up the case & make it happen, based upon his past success with Dimarzio.

Just thought I would try to shed some light on that area of the subject if I could.

peace

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

For those who are screaming 'who cares?':

If you don't want to live by ethical standards, that's completely fine.

To many of us it's completely viable to make our product selections based upon how good companies are to their market. Doesn't matter - our loss anyway, right?






(Hey, it came back from the grave anyway! )

 

[Zerberus]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

You do realise that GT are merely relabeled tubes, right?? :wave:

Yes I know this... it changes nothing about the quality of service and merchandise I´ve recieved

That means they could be made by Ruby

NOPE, Ruby is also a relabeler, and the 2 or 3 "own" designs they have are not part of the GT line

But I AM avoiding Ruby tubes / Magic Parts altogether, I do research on where manufacturers generally source their components from before I buy products.... And curently all signs point to Mesa being a customer of ruby, eeither for tubes or for the matching system.... This would instantly put Mesa on teh list as well if I find it out to be true...

Just like I love Jacksons, but will never buy a PC-1 as long as they´re loaded w /Dimarzios ... maybe used, but definitely not new..

BTW, while I understand LC´s logic (and do support the Lipstick move "more" than Dimarzio´s games) for me it boils down to: did HE invent it? And there the answer is: Nope

And IIRC, the Trademark is owned by WD Music products (aka. www.pickguards.com), the distributor... NOT Kent Armstrong Pickups, the manufacturer...

Kind of like GC owning the Patent for Dun-aged magnets (they don´t, this is just an example)... something is inherently wrong with the idea

 

[John_E_Guitar]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

They trademarked "PAF" back in the 70's.
They trademarked the Double Creme bobbins.

So what?!? I cannot fault them for this...they were shrewd business moves!

I play both Duncan and DiMarzio pickups. They BOTH make models I love as well as models I don't like.

I have owned many pickups by several manufacturers, and I have NEVER owned a defective DiMarzio OR a defective Duncan.

I've spoken with DiMarzio on many occasions, and always received excellent advice and service.

Duncans I love: Custom Shop EVH (AMAZING!!!), Full Shred, Seth Lovers, SH-5 Custon, SH-2 Jazz, Alnico II,

DIMarzios I love: Air Zone (AMAZING!!!), Air Norton, FRED, Evolution 2, PAF JOE, MegaDrive, Double Whammy, Super 3, VirtuAL 2 pickups, Virtual Vintage Solo, Cruiser (Neck Model), Fast Track 1 :beerchug:

 

[Mac-P]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

This topic shows up all the time.

DiMarzio makes great pickups. Period.

They may not have your particular flavor (just like any pickup maker may not), but then again, they may.

I like and hate some DiMarzios, some Duncans, etc.

I have had nothng but amazing service and advice from the DiMarzio guys (and Duncan guys). They are EXTREMELY knowledgable about guitars and pickups (like Duncan). They got famous (and stayed famous) for a reason (like Duncan).

I think some people around here just love the brand loyalty thing and feel this is a good forum to slag the competitor.

DiMarzio makes some pretty amazing pickups (especially their single coils), and one is losing out to just write them off.

I agree, the Air Zone is great. The Breed is great. The SDS-1 is my favorite Strat bridge single coil of all time. Fantastic pickup.

My 2 cents.

 

[Colma]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

well, i pretty much love DiMarzio. ive never had any " quality " issues, and we keep getting asked back to play shows, so obviously they cant sound too bad to the 100's of ppl we play for in this area. i think ppl like to just bash cause they dont have anything better to do than ****talk. :]

 

[insane_potato]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Dimarzio makes quality stuff.
i.e. DMZ Bluesbucker is a remarkable pickup. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's the only pickup to use such a design (one HOT coil+a voiceless coil to cancel the hum).
I've got an SG and Bluesbucker sounds olmost like a strat in it. Not as thick as 490 but this one has proper hum cancelling and well, a great single coil kind of quality which ballances better with bridge pups.
Thumbs up!

 

[Zerberus]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

BTW: Anybody else find it funny / ironic / hipocritical that people complain about Fender and Gibson having such "shodddy business practices" when they´re trying to defend their own intellectual property, yet many of the same people openly support Dimarzio´s STEALLING of intellectual property? And they don´t complain when Dimarzio runs small pickup makers out of business using said stolen property.....

Anyone else see the contradiction?

 

[C-Town Mike]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

I've played both Dimarzios & Duncans over the years, and have always been happy with the Duncans. Not necessarily so with the Dimarzios, although I can't say I ever had one stop working on me. For me, it's been a matter of tone, I am generally happy tone wise with Duncans, I've replaced every Dimarzio I've ever had to upgrade the tone.

On the patent issues, yeah, patenting things you did not create is pretty poor, and is done exclusively to lock competitors out of the industry you serve. I've dealt with this sort of thing in my day job before, and generally have found that companies that are big on hair-splitting "application patents" are not the coolest to deal with. Application patents are granted when someone takes existing technology, and tailors it for a specific application.

Say for instance, if a car company found that if they used the general design dimensions of a long flight frisbee to create the ideal commuter car flywheel, they would probably obtain an application patent for it to gain a "competitive edge". Sure, they'd change the material it's made from & add a few wrinkles, but it's pretty much the same thing at the end of the day. The best part? In this hypothetical scenario, the makers of frisbee would not be able to make flywheels without landing in court for patent infringement...

C'mon Dimarzio, patenting the color creme?

 

[freefrog]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Look up information on a DiMarzio vs. Kinman lawsuit. DiMarzio basically reverse engineered some of Kinman's designs, and then got a patent on them before he could and made it so he couldn't distribute from inside the U.S. If you want them you have to import them from Australia I think? Pretty nasty happenings.

As far as the double cream bobbins, it's mainly an annoyance. DiMarzio claimed that people might confuse other double cream 'buckers for their product based on that color scheme (when all they'd need to do is slap a brand logo on the pickup). They have been taken to court SEVERAL times and been beaten, but they have deeper pockets so they can just start up an appeal and carry on. The company just seems to care more about the money than their customers.

That said, I do like a few of their pickups, but I will only buy them used.

Ah, yes, the Australian pickups maker has posted a testimonial about it, a long time ago. Here is what he said...

...

 

[Sirion]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Revival of a 13 year old thread? Is that a new record or something?

 

[dave74]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

ok that might be a RECORD

 

[Chistopher]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

What's worse is he quoted post #7 out of 153. I think somebody needs to spend a night in the Threadromancer Rehabilitation Tank to clear their head.

 

[Jocelyn]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

What's worse is he quoted post #7 out of 153. I think somebody needs to spend a night in the Threadromancer Rehabilitation Tank to clear their head.

[emoji23]

Sent from my SM-J200G using Tapatalk

 

[Securb]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Thirteen years later people are still butthurt about double cream.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: DiMarzio Haters - Why?

Thirteen years later people are still butthurt about double cream.

Well, Ackshually...

The reviving post was about DMZ reverse engineering Kinman's idea and then patenting it. So you're just being a whineyhead.
:smash: