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dimibetan
Guest
Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat (Alder Body, Maple neck & board, Floyded) = Any Good?
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Good? No, it's better than good... incredible. However, the PAF Pro neck might be a better match. Use 250k pots.
Good? No, it's better than good... incredible. However, the PAF Pro neck might be a better match. Use 250k pots.
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dimibetan
Guest
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Why PAF Pro? Why 250k pots, would they be bright on Strat or just a little?
Why PAF Pro? Why 250k pots, would they be bright on Strat or just a little?
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dimibetan
Guest
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Sorry, I didn't mentioned... I'm a big fan of Satriani's tone and also a big fan of Fender Strats. As I researched about this, these pickups might nail the sound that I want...
Sorry, I didn't mentioned... I'm a big fan of Satriani's tone and also a big fan of Fender Strats. As I researched about this, these pickups might nail the sound that I want...
9unslin9er
New member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Yeah the Norton is an exceptionally beefy pickup. Whereas the DMZ Paf is very light, almost airy.
I'd definitely pack something like the Paf Pro for the neck. Or do like me and use a Duncan '59.
If you like Satriani but have a strat made of Alder or Ash, I'd highly suggest you look at a Tone Zone or Evo 2. They give you a lot more grunt for that saturated tone.
Yeah the Norton is an exceptionally beefy pickup. Whereas the DMZ Paf is very light, almost airy.
I'd definitely pack something like the Paf Pro for the neck. Or do like me and use a Duncan '59.
If you like Satriani but have a strat made of Alder or Ash, I'd highly suggest you look at a Tone Zone or Evo 2. They give you a lot more grunt for that saturated tone.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Because I think the PAF Pro blends better with the Norton and has a bit more power. Both the PAF Pro and Norton are kind of bright, but not too edgy. They have a particular vowel-like "ah" quality that people typically associate with Dimarzio pickups. My opinion about the 36th Anniversary pickups has changed since I started experimenting with different magnets and stuff.
To me, the PAF36th's are great pickups in the fact that they have an airy and open sound like a modern pickup with classic PAF qualities. However, they have a characteristic which I can only describe as "synthetic,", kind of like EMG actives. I used to like it but I kind of got tired of it over time.
The Norton is kind of like a JB. It doesn't really sound like a JB, but shares other similarities like tons of mid range, articulation, and medium-high output. The JB is real tight and the Norton is a bit spongy. The Norton has more overall detail and a comparable low end, or maybe even an edge more low end. It's a real versatile pickup.
I'm exactly the same in both. Satriani is my main influence and I mainly use strats. The Norton will definitely get you there since it has a lot of FRED like qualities. You can try the Mo Joe or AT-1, both of which are similar pickups if you want to nail the Satriani tone. I like all of them and the AT-1 is extremely popular, but my favorite remains the Norton. If you really want to nail Satriani's tone then get a Mo Joe/PAF Joe set.
Since we're talking about strats, I should mention the Breed pickups. The Breed bridge and neck, respectively, isn't as dark as the Air Zone/Air Norton, but not as top end detail as the Norton. What you get is a warm, thick pickup that can cut through any mix. It works really well in strats.
I don't know if you ever played a JSX, but Satch gets a lot of low end from his amp. The Fred sounds a bit thinner than the Mo Joe and I wonder if he switched to the Mo Joe because his new signature Marshall doesn't have as much low end as the JSX. It kind of fills in the parts where the Fred sounds thinner. The PAF Joe is kind of a P90'ish sounding neck pickup. He seems to kind of prefer a single-coil'ish sound in the neck.
My preference, the Norton = PAF Pro, is kind of like Satriani meets Paul Gilbert. I would choose that based on your question; however, after reading your responses, I'm thinking that a Breed set is probably ideal for you. That would be my first recommendation.
Now if you want to complicate things, I'll tell you that both the Breed neck and the LiquiFire make excellent bridge pickups. In the bridge, they give you a lot more options for mixing with other medium and vintage power neck pickups.
I have a new charcoal American standard strat and have been going back and forth with those as bridge pickups. Money has been tight so I haven't been able to order some of the neck pickups that I want to experiment with, but after playing these in the bridge for a while, I have some pretty solid ideas about what to match for neck position.
Because I think the PAF Pro blends better with the Norton and has a bit more power. Both the PAF Pro and Norton are kind of bright, but not too edgy. They have a particular vowel-like "ah" quality that people typically associate with Dimarzio pickups. My opinion about the 36th Anniversary pickups has changed since I started experimenting with different magnets and stuff.
To me, the PAF36th's are great pickups in the fact that they have an airy and open sound like a modern pickup with classic PAF qualities. However, they have a characteristic which I can only describe as "synthetic,", kind of like EMG actives. I used to like it but I kind of got tired of it over time.
The Norton is kind of like a JB. It doesn't really sound like a JB, but shares other similarities like tons of mid range, articulation, and medium-high output. The JB is real tight and the Norton is a bit spongy. The Norton has more overall detail and a comparable low end, or maybe even an edge more low end. It's a real versatile pickup.
I'm exactly the same in both. Satriani is my main influence and I mainly use strats. The Norton will definitely get you there since it has a lot of FRED like qualities. You can try the Mo Joe or AT-1, both of which are similar pickups if you want to nail the Satriani tone. I like all of them and the AT-1 is extremely popular, but my favorite remains the Norton. If you really want to nail Satriani's tone then get a Mo Joe/PAF Joe set.
Since we're talking about strats, I should mention the Breed pickups. The Breed bridge and neck, respectively, isn't as dark as the Air Zone/Air Norton, but not as top end detail as the Norton. What you get is a warm, thick pickup that can cut through any mix. It works really well in strats.
I don't know if you ever played a JSX, but Satch gets a lot of low end from his amp. The Fred sounds a bit thinner than the Mo Joe and I wonder if he switched to the Mo Joe because his new signature Marshall doesn't have as much low end as the JSX. It kind of fills in the parts where the Fred sounds thinner. The PAF Joe is kind of a P90'ish sounding neck pickup. He seems to kind of prefer a single-coil'ish sound in the neck.
My preference, the Norton = PAF Pro, is kind of like Satriani meets Paul Gilbert. I would choose that based on your question; however, after reading your responses, I'm thinking that a Breed set is probably ideal for you. That would be my first recommendation.
Now if you want to complicate things, I'll tell you that both the Breed neck and the LiquiFire make excellent bridge pickups. In the bridge, they give you a lot more options for mixing with other medium and vintage power neck pickups.
I have a new charcoal American standard strat and have been going back and forth with those as bridge pickups. Money has been tight so I haven't been able to order some of the neck pickups that I want to experiment with, but after playing these in the bridge for a while, I have some pretty solid ideas about what to match for neck position.
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dimibetan
Guest
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Thanks for the response. I'm n00b at this and I really learned a lot...
Anyway, is the Breed set is going to be too hot because I'm going to use them also for cleans? I'm not really into very heavy stuff, kind of in the middle.
Cheers,
Thanks for the response. I'm n00b at this and I really learned a lot...
Anyway, is the Breed set is going to be too hot because I'm going to use them also for cleans? I'm not really into very heavy stuff, kind of in the middle.
Cheers,
RayBarbeeMusic
Active member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
I find the PAF Pro too muddy in the neck. The 36th has enough power in the neck to deal with a Norton bridge and will be less muddy sounding, especially in lower registers.
I find the PAF Pro too muddy in the neck. The 36th has enough power in the neck to deal with a Norton bridge and will be less muddy sounding, especially in lower registers.
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dimibetan
Guest
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Did you use it on a short-scaled, mahogany bodied guitar?
Did you use it on a short-scaled, mahogany bodied guitar?
RayBarbeeMusic
Active member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
I've had them in the neck position of a number of guitars, but mostly neck-through, high-end ibanez RGs.
The highs were fine, the low notes were mud. In the bridge, too bright.
PAF Pro is a pickup that works best in the bridge of a darker sounding guitar IMO, I've had them in the bridge of LP type guitars and they sounded fantastic there.
I've had them in the neck position of a number of guitars, but mostly neck-through, high-end ibanez RGs.
The highs were fine, the low notes were mud. In the bridge, too bright.
PAF Pro is a pickup that works best in the bridge of a darker sounding guitar IMO, I've had them in the bridge of LP type guitars and they sounded fantastic there.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
No I don't think they're that hot. In fact, lowering the Breeds seems to be more ideal. I think they sound a little better a bit further from the strings. Lowering the pickups brings the magnetic field farther away from the strings thus, in effect, reducing the output a bit.
The Breed bridge is barely hotter than the Norton. Like I said though, Dimarzio recommends the Breed neck for bridge position if you want the breed tone but lower output. The Air Classic could make a good match in neck position as well as the PAF36th. I'm using the Breed neck in the bridge of my strat now and can testify to that fact.
Seriously? Is that a typo? That would be the first time I heard the PAF Pro being described as "muddy." That just can't be true as a the PAF Pro is known to be a totally articulate shredder's neck pickup. It has amazing harmonics and punch, and also makes an outstanding pickup for clean amps. As much as I respect your opinions, I cannot agree with that assessment. I once had a PRS that sounded muddy in the neck. I tried a Duncan 59 and a Pearly Gates but didn't cure the muddiness until I went with a PAF Pro. It seems to me the antithesis of a muddy pickup.
The PAF36th isn't necessarily a low-output pickup either. It has a healthy amount of output. It's hotter than your typical vintage pickup. In a Les Paul, I have to lower it in the neck because it tends to overdrive my amp more than in my strat with 250k pots.
In the end, if the OP feels like the Norton/PAF36th is a good set, then it probably will be. It's certainly one of the best Dimarzio combinations you can put together.
No I don't think they're that hot. In fact, lowering the Breeds seems to be more ideal. I think they sound a little better a bit further from the strings. Lowering the pickups brings the magnetic field farther away from the strings thus, in effect, reducing the output a bit.
The Breed bridge is barely hotter than the Norton. Like I said though, Dimarzio recommends the Breed neck for bridge position if you want the breed tone but lower output. The Air Classic could make a good match in neck position as well as the PAF36th. I'm using the Breed neck in the bridge of my strat now and can testify to that fact.
Seriously? Is that a typo? That would be the first time I heard the PAF Pro being described as "muddy." That just can't be true as a the PAF Pro is known to be a totally articulate shredder's neck pickup. It has amazing harmonics and punch, and also makes an outstanding pickup for clean amps. As much as I respect your opinions, I cannot agree with that assessment. I once had a PRS that sounded muddy in the neck. I tried a Duncan 59 and a Pearly Gates but didn't cure the muddiness until I went with a PAF Pro. It seems to me the antithesis of a muddy pickup.
The PAF36th isn't necessarily a low-output pickup either. It has a healthy amount of output. It's hotter than your typical vintage pickup. In a Les Paul, I have to lower it in the neck because it tends to overdrive my amp more than in my strat with 250k pots.
In the end, if the OP feels like the Norton/PAF36th is a good set, then it probably will be. It's certainly one of the best Dimarzio combinations you can put together.
RayBarbeeMusic
Active member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Then here's the second time: It's muddy!
What I mean by that is this: If you play low notes, say below an A or G on the D string, it loses all definition and becomes a mushy mess. Almost all humbuckers suffer from that, especially ones designed to work in the bridge position.
PAF Joe was definitely an improvement, still not as tight as I like but markedly better than the PAF Pro and for all intents the same output.
Breed neck is an icepick in the bridge, it does not sound like a breed bridge in any way, shape, or form. If you want something a bit hotter than a PAF and much more shrill, sure it does that. If you want a breed bridge with less output, move it away from the strings.
SD Jazz Neck is less muddy than PAF Pro in the neck. DiM EJ special less than Jazz, DiM HFH less still. Then I could go into some boutique stuff that is even more along the "my low notes dont sound like a wet fart" spectrum. A good single coil allows you to play those low notes without them becoming mush at all, but it is very hard to find a humbucker that will do it. Even humbuckers that have high notes as bright as a single.
Then here's the second time: It's muddy!
What I mean by that is this: If you play low notes, say below an A or G on the D string, it loses all definition and becomes a mushy mess. Almost all humbuckers suffer from that, especially ones designed to work in the bridge position.
PAF Joe was definitely an improvement, still not as tight as I like but markedly better than the PAF Pro and for all intents the same output.
Breed neck is an icepick in the bridge, it does not sound like a breed bridge in any way, shape, or form. If you want something a bit hotter than a PAF and much more shrill, sure it does that. If you want a breed bridge with less output, move it away from the strings.
SD Jazz Neck is less muddy than PAF Pro in the neck. DiM EJ special less than Jazz, DiM HFH less still. Then I could go into some boutique stuff that is even more along the "my low notes dont sound like a wet fart" spectrum. A good single coil allows you to play those low notes without them becoming mush at all, but it is very hard to find a humbucker that will do it. Even humbuckers that have high notes as bright as a single.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
No way. I disagree with all of it. Furthermore, I have a Breed neck in the bridge of my strat with 250k pots and it doesn't sound icepicky in the least. In fact, it's quite warm and sounds like the Breed. I'm not going to argue with you, but I know from my experience and what you're saying is even out of the norm of general opinion.
No way. I disagree with all of it. Furthermore, I have a Breed neck in the bridge of my strat with 250k pots and it doesn't sound icepicky in the least. In fact, it's quite warm and sounds like the Breed. I'm not going to argue with you, but I know from my experience and what you're saying is even out of the norm of general opinion.
RayBarbeeMusic
Active member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
General opinion for what? People using super light strings with no midrange and tons of gain maybe.
General opinion for what? People using super light strings with no midrange and tons of gain maybe.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
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RayBarbeeMusic
Active member
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
Paul uses Areas and Injectors now, which are legitimately tight pickups on low notes. I wouldn't consider Satriani's neck pickup tone articulate on low notes, although his whole tone has become better in recent years. He's using less gain and heavier strings, last time I saw G3 his tone and ability to cut the mix and hear each note were much, much better than Vai's and whoever else he was playing with, can't even recall.
Paul also used to use Humbucker from Hell, sometimes in parallel wiring, which was THE STANDARD for non-muddy neck humbucker at the time. Several orders of magnitude tighter than a PAF Pro in the neck.
You should do some comparing. There are a whole lot of pickups that hold together in that range a whole lot better than a PAF Pro. If you do a fast picked run starting low on the E string, most humbuckers make it sound like a wall of indistinguishable mud until you pass A 220 or so. I've experienced it my self for years and seen it when a lot of the people you probably listen to play live and try to play in that range; they may as well be playing random chromatic junk since no one could tell the difference. No articulation, no cut, just mush.
Do the same thing with a single coil type pickup and the notes are clear and defined. It isn't about output, it's about low end content. Same applies in an amplifier. A lot of amps have mushy undefined lows because the designer tried to push too much low end too early in the gain staging. Most humbuckers have too much low end content in the neck position to be clear on low notes.
It's only in the last few years I think anyone has been making a humbucker that would let you start a fast picked run on say F# on your low E and be able to hear each note clearly. PAF Pro certainly is not one of the pickups that are capable of that, unless maybe you are using a whole heckuva lot of high end in your tone.
Paul uses Areas and Injectors now, which are legitimately tight pickups on low notes. I wouldn't consider Satriani's neck pickup tone articulate on low notes, although his whole tone has become better in recent years. He's using less gain and heavier strings, last time I saw G3 his tone and ability to cut the mix and hear each note were much, much better than Vai's and whoever else he was playing with, can't even recall.
Paul also used to use Humbucker from Hell, sometimes in parallel wiring, which was THE STANDARD for non-muddy neck humbucker at the time. Several orders of magnitude tighter than a PAF Pro in the neck.
You should do some comparing. There are a whole lot of pickups that hold together in that range a whole lot better than a PAF Pro. If you do a fast picked run starting low on the E string, most humbuckers make it sound like a wall of indistinguishable mud until you pass A 220 or so. I've experienced it my self for years and seen it when a lot of the people you probably listen to play live and try to play in that range; they may as well be playing random chromatic junk since no one could tell the difference. No articulation, no cut, just mush.
Do the same thing with a single coil type pickup and the notes are clear and defined. It isn't about output, it's about low end content. Same applies in an amplifier. A lot of amps have mushy undefined lows because the designer tried to push too much low end too early in the gain staging. Most humbuckers have too much low end content in the neck position to be clear on low notes.
It's only in the last few years I think anyone has been making a humbucker that would let you start a fast picked run on say F# on your low E and be able to hear each note clearly. PAF Pro certainly is not one of the pickups that are capable of that, unless maybe you are using a whole heckuva lot of high end in your tone.
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dimibetan
Guest
Re: Dimarzio Norton + 36th Anniv PAF + Strat = Good?
This is getting more interesting... Now I'm thinking if I'm going for HH or SSS... The Area 67/67/61 combo might be another option for more articulation but it wont be the kind of tone that I'm looking for.
This is getting more interesting... Now I'm thinking if I'm going for HH or SSS... The Area 67/67/61 combo might be another option for more articulation but it wont be the kind of tone that I'm looking for.
