Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

[mojosman]

I hope this doesn’t fall into the dumb question category, but I’ll ask It anyway.
A friend of mine told me only DiMarzio can sell you uncovered humbucker sets with cream faces. I said this can’t be true, and he said that they created this concept, and have sued to enforce their copywrite. Does anyone know more about this, and why can’t another company sell a very similar color, which they call desert mauve or something? Was I misinformed? Thank you in advance.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

The short answer is yes, it's true.

To me, Duncan offers a similar color and it is called "white." But I'm not the interior decorating type, so couldn't tell you how close it is to cream.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

I hope this doesn’t fall into the dumb question category, but I’ll ask It anyway.
A friend of mine told me only DiMarzio can sell you uncovered humbucker sets with cream faces. I said this can’t be true, and he said that they created this concept, and have sued to enforce their copywrite. Does anyone know more about this, and why can’t another company sell a very similar color, which they call desert mauve or something? Was I misinformed? Thank you in advance.

They own a trademark on double cream bobbins. This was their thing when they came out in the 70s. Before they had logos on their bobbins you could tell it was DiMarzio because of the cream color. Same with the P bass pickup. Look up old ads from the 70’s.

Another company can make bobbins any color they like, as long as it’s not cream or something that looks close.


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[AlexR]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Not misinformed.

They registered a trademark 'by default'. It was unopposed by Gibson (the creator of the look) so it never made it to the argument stage in the legal process. If so it would have been shot down.

But its only the US that suffers from such an issue.....the rest of the world didn't stand for such nonsense. All winders from the rest of the world can and do use doublecream and sell to the states quite happily. You just can't have a business in the US and make them.

And in fact if it got to court now the 'John Deer Green' precedent would strike the TM down.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Not misinformed.

They registered a trademark 'by default'. It was unopposed by Gibson (the creator of the look) so it never made it to the argument stage in the legal process. If so it would have been shot down.

Gibson did not create that look. Gibson did not sell uncovered pickups back then. And their pickups were mostly black. The only reason some Gibson bobbins were cream is because the company that supplied their injection molded parts ran out of black. Gibson never sold double cream pickups on purpose. They had no intention for anyone to ever see the bobbins. But players took the covers off because it made the pickup a little louder and brighter.

DiMarzio on the other hand started out making double cream pickups by default. They actually made them from pick guard material when they started out.



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[Nagisa]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Just another case of ridiculous copyrighting.

Nike should copyright white shoes.
Metallica should copyright chugging E minor.
Hawaii should copyright palm trees.

 

[ICTGoober]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

So make cream double coils, and call them..... parchment, or biscuit, or ecru, or sand, or taupe, or oatmeal, or butter, or champagne, or straw, or beige.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Just another case of ridiculous copyrighting.

Nike should copyright white shoes.
Metallica should copyright chugging E minor.
Hawaii should copyright palm trees.

Not really. I don’t know how old you are, but back in 1972 there wasn’t any aftermarket pickups. You had to buy a Gibson, Guild, or Fender pickup.

The first aftermarket pickups were Lawrence, Hi-A (Bartolini), and DiMarzio.

When you watched a guitarist on TV or live, if the pickups were cream you knew it was DiMarzio. That color was their trademark. Lawrence had cream pickups, but most were rectangular and had blades. Plus Bill taught Larry about pickups.

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[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

So make cream double coils, and call them..... parchment, or biscuit, or ecru, or sand, or taupe, or oatmeal, or butter, or champagne, or straw, or beige.

It’s not the name. It’s the color. But give it a try and wait for their lawyers to call.


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[mojosman]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Wow, this seems bizarre to me. For those of you who were alive at the proper time in guitar gear history AND who had the knowledge and awareness to spot DiMarzio’s in the wild were only a segment of the population. Most folks just saw a guitar.

I’ve never really gone crazy for the double cream look, but if I did want to have that look I never realized this was an issue. Thank you all for the insight. I knew I asked this question in the right place.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Wow, this seems bizarre to me. For those of you who were alive at the proper time in guitar gear history AND who had the knowledge and awareness to spot DiMarzio’s in the wild were only a segment of the population. Most folks just saw a guitar.

Logos on a Fender or Gibson guitar only matter to musicians. Most people just see a guitar.

But that’s what trade marks are for.

And don’t forget that Gibson had a patent on the humbucker. So back then there wouldn’t have been a Duncan or DiMarzio!

I’ve never really gone crazy for the double cream look, but if I did want to have that look I never realized this was an issue. Thank you all for the insight. I knew I asked this question in the right place.

I don’t care for that look either. But notice no one else sells double cream... but it has to have 12 poles. So Carvin and Lawrence never had a problem.

At this point most DiMarzio pickups are black. I think they should abandon the trademark. But I’m sure they won’t.


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[Chistopher]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Just another case of ridiculous copyrighting.

Nike should copyright white shoes.
Metallica should copyright chugging E minor.
Hawaii should copyright palm trees.

*Trademark.

In related news, did you know that 3M has a trademark on the entire concept and color of purple? They won't sue you over it unless you are a direct trade competitor, and even then they haven't actually sued anyone over it yet.

 

[ICTGoober]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Remember when Earnhardt racing tried to copyright a slanted 3?

 

[TVFV]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

No good can come of this...

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[Gtrjunior]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

So make cream double coils, and call them..... parchment, or biscuit, or ecru, or sand, or taupe, or oatmeal, or butter, or champagne, or straw, or beige.

I believe Suhr has a parchment color. It’s not really cream like Dimarzio. More like an off white.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

I believe Suhr has a parchment color. It’s not really cream like Dimarzio. More like an off white.

SD has parchment as an option too, but you have to get it as a Shop Floor Custom.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Gibson did not create that look. Gibson did not sell uncovered pickups back then. And their pickups were mostly black. The only reason some Gibson bobbins were cream is because the company that supplied their injection molded parts ran out of black. Gibson never sold double cream pickups on purpose. They had no intention for anyone to ever see the bobbins. But players took the covers off because it made the pickup a little louder and brighter.

DiMarzio on the other hand started out making double cream pickups by default. They actually made them from pick guard material when they started out.



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Gibson DID create the look. Not deliberately, not through their own original setup, but the definition of creating a look doesn't exclude or preclude accident in the slightest. But the doublecream idea came from Larry's own 59 that had a doublecream PAF. Hence for the purposes of this argument it is Gibson's idea in every way it counts, as Larry merely copied something already in existence.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Yes, and there are many many threads about this. To summarize: most people outside of the company that owns the trademark, are upset about this, but that's how trademark laws work.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

I bet having the trademark on the double cream has cost him sales. Theres plenty of people that hold a grudge that buy alot of pickups

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Its true, rumor has it, Larry's favorite drink is the vinegar and water. The PAF thing is what really makes me sick. Like that was his IP? It wasnt, total squirrel move IMO