DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

[Rex_Rocker]

So, I thought this may be of interest seeing these are two of the most popular pickups from each maker.

This is the second guitar I replace a PAF Pro in the bridge position for a '59B, and the differences/similarities were pretty consistent in both guitars.

They are both very close to having the same output level.

The PAF Pro has less low-end. The Duncan '59 has a more prominent low-end. I'd say the Duncan is a tad looser.

The PAF Pro is very slightly less midscooped than the '59. That's not to say the PAF Pro is as middy as the whole "aww" description seems to suggest. In fact, I do think the whole "aww" description might be a bit exaggerated, IMO. The PAF Pro is still in the Alnico 5 PAF-ish camp in that it has a very open-sounding EQ.

The PAF Pro is brighter than the '59. This is a bit of a weird comparison, though. The PAF Pro seems to have a very prominent pick attack and edgy highs that somewhat remind me of a single coil. The '59 is not dark by any means, and I'd even say it has more snarl than the PAF Pro, but its highs, I think, are voiced with more of a rudeness to them.

Even though they are both different, I don't think they are in a completely different league either. They are both very close in output, and they've both got the open-sounding EQ. The PAF Pro is slightly more modern and articulate, and the Duncan has a bit more of a vintage rudeness and attitude to it, but I think both can venture into the other's territory. JMO.

These are comparing the bridge pickups, though. I haven't directly compared them in the neck position of the same guitar to be able to tell with certainty, but I'd say the PAF Pro is hotter than the '59N, but still snappier and very slightly less scooped.

Hope this helps anyone trying to decide between either.

 

[gregory]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

Personally, I absolutely abhor the PAF Pro in the bridge; it's not at all like the 59B.

I love the PAF Pro in the neck, however; but too hot for vintage-style bridge pickups.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

I'm the other way around, lol. I like the PAF Pro in the bridge, especially in basswood. I'm not particularly fond of how it pairs with hot and smooth bridge pickups like the Tone Zone or Super Distortion. I even thought it was too bright in the neck paired with a Dominion in the bridge, but that's just me.

I do like the PAF Pro/PAF Pro combo, though.

 

[gregory]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

My two PAF Pros began life in a basswood EBMM Silhouette. I gave up for looking for a guitar to house the one jettisoned from the bridge position.

 

[daenius]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

I run double PAF Pros in one of my guitars, it's a good combination.

I do prefer it in the bridge, actually. The neck position actually gets a bit honky, the "aww" is exaggerated when you install it in the neck position. Try playing notes around the 10th to 14th fret on the G string with a PAF Pro in the neck with some overdrive and you'll know what I'm talking about. The bass of the PAF Pro neck kind of falls apart for me too, if you ever want to play on a lower string with the neck pickup, the note is just so bland and weak. Sounds very good for doing the shred licks up high on the neck on the high strings though!

The bridge position is a different story. I like it a whole lot. It sounds pretty hot, but it isn't all that hot. The EQ fools your ears a lot with this one.

 

[gregory]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

That's just the thing...
If you tailor your tone to make the PAF Pro sound good in the bridge, it will sound horrible in the neck: that makes for an awful combination in my book.

Replace the PAF Pro in the bridge with The Breed neck model and all is well.

Leave the PAF Pro in the bridge and replace the neck PAF Pro with something like an HFH then you're good to go. ...well, not if you're like me and simply don't like the sound of the PAF Pro in the bridge.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

I would like to try the Breed neck being a super overwound PAF Pro.

 

[gregory]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

The PAF Pro pairs well with just about any hot bridge pickup; especially in darker guitars.

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

The PAF Pro is one of my favorite DiMarzios for sure, and I think they pair quite well as shown in the original JEMs. Very nice, clear lead tones.

If I wanted something warmer in the same vein, I'd probably do the Breed set.

As for the '59B, it is a perfectly good pickup, although I think the '59N begs to be paired with something hotter.

 

[gregory]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

As for the '59B, it is a perfectly good pickup, although I think the '59N begs to be paired with something hotter.

That's what I find quite odd. The 59n is a weaker pickup designed to pair with the 59b as a matched set.

A PAF Pro in the neck is the same pickup as a PAF Pro in the bridge, which is quite a bit more powerful than the 59n. The only recourse you have to match the level of a pair of PAF Pros is to drop the one in the neck which, IMO is detrimental to the tone for that specific pickup in that position.

While not as bad as the Norton, the PAF Pro in the bridge still reminds me of the boxy, over-processed hair metal drowned in reverb and accompanied by synthesizers in the late '80s just before it was mercilessly cast aside. OTOH, the 59, to me, is a timeless classic: capturing the true essence of a humbucker.

 

[daenius]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

So I have 2 of those original JEMs, both have double PAF Pros

What I find is that given a certain amp setting, either the bridge sounds amazing or the neck sounds amazing, but not both at the same time =/

The issue is that while I can get the combo to sound good with height adjustments, the neck ends up not behaving the way I want a neck pickup to sound. I can get it to sound very nice and clear, but it certainly loses all the creamy fatness that I want, and the low strings would sound anemic.

I ended up living with having the bridge be amazing and have the neck be decent enough. If I want the neck pickup to sound a bit creamier, I just step on a Tube Screamer and solve that problem.

 

[gregory]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

either the bridge sounds amazing or the neck sounds amazing, but not both at the same time =/

that makes for an awful combination in my book

The issue is that while I can get the combo to sound good with height adjustments, the neck ends up not behaving the way I want a neck pickup to sound. I can get it to sound very nice and clear, but it certainly loses all the creamy fatness that I want, and the low strings would sound anemic.

If you haven't tried it, lower the bass side of the pickup and then adjust the poles so that they remain parallel to the strings.

 

[Aceman]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

I wouldn't compare the PAF Pro to the 59, same ballpark, but way different games....


I love the PAF Pro in the neck of a Les Paul (or neck period).
The Aww sound will be more evident in middy guitars - like a Les Paul. Less so in more scoopy axes.

PAF Pro is a great pickup if you dig it. Then again, aren't they all!

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

I wouldn't compare the PAF Pro to the 59, same ballpark, but way different games....

I kinda both agree and disagree.

I do think the PAF Pro in the neck reminds me more of the more modern-voiced Jazz than the vintage-voiced '59, but the Jazz is also slightly more scoopy, lower output, and a bit warmer and less attack-y. JMO.

I'm curious about how the Full Shred Neck would compare to the PAF Pro.

 

[gregory]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

The FSn is much thinner and brighter. Earlier I mentioned pairing an HFH in the neck with the PAF Pro in the bridge. The FSn will fit the bill just as well; probably better than any other humbucker that Duncan makes.

I honestly think the PAF in PAF Pro is seriously misleading; but I've already spent an inordinate amount of time marginalizing it as a bridge pickup without any heart or soul.

 

[freefrog]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

I honestly think the PAF in PAF Pro is seriously misleading

Not if we consider that DiMarzio has registered the acronym "PAF". LOL.

Now, it's true that the parts composing a PAF pro aren't similar to those of a P.A.F. :

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/dimarzio-super-distortion-paf-pro-analysis-and-review.406266/

 

[daenius]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

Not if we consider that DiMarzio has registered the acronym "PAF". LOL.

Now, it's true that the parts composing a PAF pro aren't similar to those of a P.A.F. :

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/dimarzio-super-distortion-paf-pro-analysis-and-review.406266/

Well the article did say it uses the same kind of Alnico bar magnet and that the hex screws are, from a material perspective, identical to a PAF. However, because of the double hex screw, the Q factor does get changed up, and with everything else considered, it's not really much of a remarkable PAF clone.

I agree with that, and I never really considered it to be a "PAF clone", and I don't think Dimarzio themselves even dare to say it is one, other than the PAF in the name. I mean ok, it's got the same magnet, similar DC resistance, similar screws except for the hex head, but that's about where the similarity ends. The "aww" is only ever present in the neck position for me, so the speculation that it's meant to just match a SuperD checks out. Dimarzio markets it as a sort of a modern take on a classic style pickup, I suppose that's true too because it's basically a modern pickup that's voiced somewhat like a PAF (flat mids vs the slight mid dip in other PAFs). Considering it's Dimarzio, a "flat" mid is basically "scoop" and "PAF" in their eyes since every other pickup they make is a giant steroid boosted mid monster.

Eh, companies can be terrible at naming products, but it's still a pretty nice pickup, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[freefrog]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

Well the article did say it uses the same kind of Alnico bar magnet and that the hex screws are, from a material perspective, identical to a PAF. However, because of the double hex screw, the Q factor does get changed up

The reason why I've posted this link is not what the article says (in a way that I find discussible on the basis of my own humble experience) but what it shows objectively:
-brass baseplate with four holding screws made of magnetic alloy (vs the NS basseplate and brass holding screws of a P.A.F. or Duncan SH1);
-hex poles VS screws & slugs in a P.A..F or SH1.;
-polished AlNiCo bar VS rough cast one in a P.A.F. (and in old SH1's);
-4.3H for almost 9k of DCR, when a P.A.F. clone would be expected to have a lower DCR and a higher inductance (my SH1's from different eras measure(d) 7.5k to 8.6k and 4.2H to 4.8H, if memory serves me)...

Etc. Non limitative list, to be continued if necessary.

These material differences explain the different Q factor noticed and contribute to a different tone IMHO/IME.

It doesn't make me lose my sleep either and if the PAFpro makes some players happy, I'm simply glad for them. I was just underlining that a DM "PAF(R)" is not quite the same thing technically speaking than a " P. A. F."... nor than a SH1.

Thx to Rex_Rocker to have shared his experience anyway!

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

Nice write up, I found that very informative.
I have no personal experience, but I was thinking about what you wrote and I was wondering what you could do to fine tune their voicing since you like some qualities of each...
For example if you want to keep the 59B but you want to make the lows less prominent and take some of the high end off at the same time...
Would an UOA5 make the 59B more like the DiMarzio in that respect? Would an A4 would be the next step or is that counter intuitive to the overall objective?

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: DiMarzio PAF Pro vs. Seymour Duncan '59B - my thoughts

That's what I find quite odd. The 59n is a weaker pickup designed to pair with the 59b as a matched set.

A PAF Pro in the neck is the same pickup as a PAF Pro in the bridge, which is quite a bit more powerful than the 59n. The only recourse you have to match the level of a pair of PAF Pros is to drop the one in the neck which, IMO is detrimental to the tone for that specific pickup in that position.

While not as bad as the Norton, the PAF Pro in the bridge still reminds me of the boxy, over-processed hair metal drowned in reverb and accompanied by synthesizers in the late '80s just before it was mercilessly cast aside. OTOH, the 59, to me, is a timeless classic: capturing the true essence of a humbucker.

The '59N was paired very successfully with the much hotter Lawrence L500XL by both Nuno Bettencourt and Dime, although Dime later used the Duncan Dimebucker with some similarity to the L500 in his sig Washburn. It's actually where I got the initial idea to try the Distortion/'59N (I was concerned the L500 might be a little TOO hot, so I chose the Distortion....not sure how the true output compares).