Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

[dpaterson]

Is there a "right way round" to be installing a DM SD bridge position (F-spaced)???

Pole pieces look identical to me on both sides (unlike my stock Jackson pickups or a SD JB SH-4 for example) so does its orientation matter???

If installing another DM SD in the neck: depending on the orientation of the bridge pickup (as above and pending the answer) should the orientation be the same or opposite (or doesn't it matter with the DM SD)???

Same thing with SD Invaders i.e. does their orientation matter??? Although in the case of the SD Invaders the SD logos would obviously (yes???) be closest to the trem. in both the bridge and neck positions???





Regards,

Dale.

 

[oilpit]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

There will be a negligible difference. Pickups with mismatched coils do sound slightly different depending on the orientation. Neither of those pickups have mismatched coils.

Stop making threads about minuscule guitar tweaks and go practice some Vivian Campbell solos.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

There will be a negligible difference. Pickups with mismatched coils do sound slightly different depending on the orientation. Neither of those pickups have mismatched coils.

Stop making threads about minuscule guitar tweaks and go practice some Vivian Campbell solos.

"Mismatched coils". See now there's a term not in my vocabulary until now and a new term for me to use!!! LOL!!!

That DM SD is apparently en route and I don't wanna do the job twice (hence my making sure while I eagerly await it's grand arrival).

Can't play the solos. Tone wrong. But watch this space......... LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

Not that I REALLY want to over complicate matters (who me???) but there must surely be a conflict if you have two pickups, with mismatched coils (see I learn fast), orientated incorrectly (especially if we're talking about a neck pickup and a bridge pickup which are right next to each other)??? One would be pulling while the other one would be repelling (the strings) not so??? JUST curious (obviously nothing I need to concern myself with insofar as my choice of new pickups is concerned).

 

[oilpit]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

but there must surely be a conflict if you have two pickups, with mismatched coils (see I learn fast), orientated incorrectly (especially if we're talking about a neck pickup and a bridge pickup which are right next to each other)??? One would be pulling while the other one would be repelling (the strings) not so??? JUST curious (obviously nothing I need to concern myself with insofar as my choice of new pickups is concerned).

Are you asking if there would be a “conflict” if your pickups were wired incorrectly? I don’t think it would be any more of an issue in a guitar with two pickups right next to each other than one with a standard pickup layout. In both cases the conflict would go away if you were to fix the wiring problem.

The last sentence is just not how pickups work.

I really think that every time you are about to make a thread or ask a question just try to figure out if you can easily google that question and get an acceptable answer. Forums are great but not everything needs to be discussed at length, and you’re just asking questions to ask them at this point.

Go play guitar!

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

No offense but the reason I actually asked about the orientation of my new pickups is because I've never changed pickups before. Sorry to bother. But once again: thanks for the info.

As for the rest:

I did Google this stuff and it's actually the reason I brought it up (contrary to popular belief I don't sit and stare at these things day in and day out and wonder "what if"). If you like I'll find the link (actually scr*w it). Somewhere I read that two pickups side by side should not repel each other (magnetic field and nothing to do with wiring). And the closer your strings are to the pickups the bigger an issue it is.

 

[Francois]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Can't play the solos. Tone wrong.

I disagree with this.

I often practise unplugged because 1) I touch the guitar too often to have time to plug it each time and 2) I play in the night when wife and daughters are sleeping nearby.

So you can practise solo even with no tone at all !!!

(That said, practising with amp is compulsory I know. Otherwise one cannot know that he/she did not mute well the 5 other strings when playing one, which is the hardest thing in soloing (quoting EVH here))

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Hey Francois.

Can't play the solos. Tone wrong.

It was a joke (that possibly went down the wrong way).

Truth be told: practicing WITHOUT an amp. is better for the simple reason that it forces you to be accurate and clearly sound every note as opposed to relying on distortion, gain, and other effects to cover up shortcomings. When you then do play through your amp. it sounds all the better. I do it often i.e. walk around the house and even outside to the point where I can only just hear the amp. (wireless).

 

[Francois]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Maybe good to do both. But for me a few years ago I got trouble because I played too much without amp.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

On Seymour Duncans, the logo is right-reading when the guitar is upright. In other words, if the guitar were sitting in a guitar stand, you should be able to read the logo on all the pickups (neck, middle, bridge)

Is there isn’t a logo, for humbuckers the bridge pickup wire would be coming out of the corner closest to the control cavity. The neck pickup would be the opposite - the wire would come out of the corner of the pickup farthest from the control cavity.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Is there a "right way round" to be installing a DM SD bridge position (F-spaced)???

Pole pieces look identical to me on both sides (unlike my stock Jackson pickups or a SD JB SH-4 for example) so does its orientation matter???

If installing another DM SD in the neck: depending on the orientation of the bridge pickup (as above and pending the answer) should the orientation be the same or opposite (or doesn't it matter with the DM SD)???

Same thing with SD Invaders i.e. does their orientation matter??? Although in the case of the SD Invaders the SD logos would obviously (yes???) be closest to the trem. in both the bridge and neck positions???

View attachment 94376

View attachment 94377

Regards,

Dale.

I concur with Oilpits reply that the orientation doesnt matter.

[Edit]: after wriiting what i wrote below, i then came across your other post where you are trying to nail Vivian Campbell's tone from the Dio/1984 era. So maybe my enthusiasm about the Super Distortion pickup wired in parallel might not be pertinent to your goal. [Edit]

Separately, i myself just installed a Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge of my guitar which is a Les Paul type, and i was suprised to fall in love with how it sounds when its two coils are wired in parallel vs the more common "in series." To my ears, it tightened up the tone in a great way, removed what i consider a "too much" amount of beefiness from the in-series tone, and all without making the tone sound nasally, piercing and dropping drastically in output volume, like many people complain about when they try wiring other humbucker pickups in parallel. I assume the Super Distortion is reacting different because it is a hot pickup with matched coils. So i highly recommend trying it out , wired in parallel. I used a Seymour Duncan Triple Shot pickul ring to try it this way... but you could also wire up a switch or a push-pull etc to go between in-series and in-parallel wiring options.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

There is technically no 'incorrect' orientation. Humbuckers for example only ever had visible screws on because of a aesthetics based decision made by the suits at Gibson during development - Seth Lover wanted a solid cover. The orientation was a flip the coin decision and the screws are flipped neck to bridge mainly due to routing the wires into a diagonal wiring channel the most economical way.
The only reason why the logo is the way it is concerns the guitar being on a stand or vertical and looking at the writing right side up. In playing position it is not so good.

But even if the pickup had different coils and produced a slightly different tone one way vs another, why would you be so blinkered as to think only one way works, or consider something different/the other way around as 'wrong'......have you gone so far along your copying mentality that originality or finding something new is an alien concept?!?

 

[devastone]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

To the original question, it doesn't matter for the Super D or the Invader when used alone, they both have symmetrical coils and pole pieces. It can make a difference when they are used with other pickups, they can be out of phase, so Beau's rule of thumb is best to follow unless you want to intentionally create out of phase sounds. Although, you also need to be aware of differences in wiring colors (DiMarzio and Duncan are different)

A lot of DiMarzio pickups have asymmetrical coils, so it can affect the tone depending on which way they are installed.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

^ Physical orientation does not affect phase. Only magnet within pickup and mis-wiring can cause OOP.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Morning.

Thanks for the posts and input.

Well the DM SD is in (it actually took longer to put new strings on that it did to change the pickup). Fits perfectly and no issues. And now that I've done this for the first time: I can see, just based on the holes in the guitar and the wiring within, that it'd be hard to make a mistake re: the orientation.

Regards,

Dale.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

I read in your other thread that you didn’t hear a big difference.
I’d suggest playing with the pickup height for a little while and see if you can find the sweet spot.
But, like you said...that Jackson pup is already pretty hot and who knows, maybe it is voiced similarly to the Super D....
But it’s at least worth a try to tweak it a bit.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Hi.

Thanks for the post and the input and interest shown. Very much appreciated.

This "sweet spot" thing I'm never able to find (but if you've any suggestions as to how to find it I'm all ears). So I always set my pickups to 1.6mm (Jackson standard) or 2.4mm (found that on SD's website somewhere) and have even tried the "Dime" method (which is 1.95mm). Doesn't make much difference at all (and I have the added problem that at 2.4mm on or bigger the pickup is going below the pickup ring on the treble side).

For some reason it's just "shrill" and worse now (needless to say still lacks mids.) (matter of fact let's call it "body" as mids. seems to be confusing everyone). Searched the Internet for "shrill harsh guitar" but found nothing that jumps out at me.

And this parallel wiring (I've not done it yet)??? Is it worth the effort??? Is it not the same as simply turning the volume down at the end of the day??? Don't know.

I dunno. Maybe I should record this cr*p and maybe somebody can give me some more pointers because I tell you: I'm not far from putting a match to this stuff right now. The whole flippin' lot of it (alright: not my PA i.e. that always puts a smile on my dial) (just not with my own music).

And at this point: I'd settle for a DECENT tone (forget about Dio/Campbell at this point).

Thanks again.

Regards,

Dale.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Following on from my post above.

You any good with wiring here???

Below is a pic. of my white Jackson's wiring. It's totally different from the wiring on the black Jackson. And unless I'm interpreting it different: it's unlike any other wiring diagram I've found (SD, DM, StewMac). For one thing (and not sure how much a difference this could make): the pickups are earthed onto the tone pot. and not the volume pot. For another: the cap. on the tone pot. is on one of the outer connectors of the tone pot. For some or the other reason this guitar isn't harsh, brittle, annoying, whatever and I'm wondering if this wiring could be the reason. The Jackson pickups are only two wire (ground sleeve and red on one pickup and white on the other).



Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

Could the lack of tone pot. have anything to do with this??? Only thought about it now. I've not connected a tone pot. in the black Jackson (with the DM SD) and the Blaze just doesn't have one at all. But the white Jackson does.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

I have to run a few errands right now but I’ll get back to you when I get back in the house.
I’m far from a wiring expert but I think I’ve seen a diagram for what you have there. I’ll have to look and see if I can find it.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Following on from my post above.

You any good with wiring here???

Below is a pic. of my white Jackson's wiring. It's totally different from the wiring on the black Jackson. And unless I'm interpreting it different: it's unlike any other wiring diagram I've found (SD, DM, StewMac). For one thing (and not sure how much a difference this could make): the pickups are earthed onto the tone pot. and not the volume pot. For another: the cap. on the tone pot. is on one of the outer connectors of the tone pot. For some or the other reason this guitar isn't harsh, brittle, annoying, whatever and I'm wondering if this wiring could be the reason. The Jackson pickups are only two wire (ground sleeve and red on one pickup and white on the other).

View attachment 94398

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

Could the lack of tone pot. have anything to do with this??? Only thought about it now. I've not connected a tone pot. in the black Jackson (with the DM SD) and the Blaze just doesn't have one at all. But the white Jackson does.

Hi Dale,

The wiring in your white guitar is not functionnally different. Now it could be interesting to measure how much "stray capacitance" it involves.

Anyway: yes, of course, the lack of tone pot makes the sound brittle... Even full up, the tone pot is what tames the height of the "resonant peak" of a pickup (while the frequency of this peak is set by capacitance and inductance).

If you want to mimic a tone pot in a guitar without it, all you have to do is to put a 470k, 330k, 270k or 220k resistor between hot and ground... You can add a standard tone cap in series with the resistor but it doesn't make much difference (although a resistor + tone cap is exactly what I have mounted in one of my main guitars initially fitted with a single volume pot).

Regarding the parallel wiring: it would just make the SD weaker and brighter.


Good luck in your quest.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Dimarzio Super Distortion and SD Invader orientation

Hi.

..And this parallel wiring (I've not done it yet)??? Is it worth the effort??? Is it not the same as simply turning the volume down at the end of the day??? Don't know.

You may not have seen it - i edited my earlier reply where i recommended the parallel wiring, to say "nevermind". I wrote that reply before i saw your other post and learned you are on a particular tone quest.