Dimarzio - wiring confusion

[andyg_prs]

You have encountered one of the classic conundrums in wiring design decisions: you want to place the slug coil of the Air Norton pickup on the inside and make that the active coil in the Neck slot because it is the louder coil based on DC Resistance, but it won't be hum-canceling when combined with the inner (slug) coil of the Tone Zone of the Bridge pickup because they are both North magnetic polarity. The only way to get that particular arrangement to be hum-canceling is to flip the magnet in one of the two humbucker pickups. However, it may be worth your while to first see for yourself whether that small difference in DC Resistance btw the two Air Norton coils really matters enough loudness-wise, to bother doing the magnet flip. I.e. first wire it up with the Air Norton Screw (South magnetic polarity) arranged to sit as the inner coil, with (as you said) its White wire as hot, Red/Green as the series link, and Black as Ground, and listen to the results of Both Inner Coils In Parallel with your own ear, to decide if the tone and volume of that is truly lacking or not.

Thanks. More questions I have read back through http://www.1728.org/guitar1b.htm but that really focusses on the two coils constituting a humbucker rather than the parallel connection of two separate humbuckers.

1. Ignoring coil splitting, could I wire both HBs with red as hot and green to ground?

2. Would this be the same regardless of the magnetic polarity of each pickup?

3. Could I then take the black / white split to ground for single coil operation for either / both pickups? Btw, this is what the leaflet with my brand new Air Norton seems to say https://d2emr0qhzqfj88.cloudfront.ne...nductor_47.pdf

4. Going with White as hot, Red/Green split and Black as ground, if I wanted to use the slug coil for the split, could I just take the Red/Green to hot rather than to ground?

Finally, as an aside, if I were going to flip a magnet, I would do it on the Tone Zone as I have previously carried out that "half-air" mod on it, so it's already been opened up and I know what going on in there. I'm a bit more precious about the brand new Air Norton.

Regardless though, I'm still trying to understand the earlier questions about white hot / black ground vs black hot / green ground. I clearly haven't fully understood all the factors that impact phase in humbucker and single coil modes.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Thanks. More questions I have read back through http://www.1728.org/guitar1b.htm but that really focusses on the two coils constituting a humbucker rather than the parallel connection of two separate humbuckers.

1. Ignoring coil splitting, could I wire both HBs with red as hot and green to ground?

2. Would this be the same regardless of the magnetic polarity of each pickup?

3. Could I then take the black / white split to ground for single coil operation for either / both pickups? Btw, this is what the leaflet with my brand new Air Norton seems to say https://d2emr0qhzqfj88.cloudfront.ne...nductor_47.pdf

4. Going with White as hot, Red/Green split and Black as ground, if I wanted to use the slug coil for the split, could I just take the Red/Green to hot rather than to ground?

Finally, as an aside, if I were going to flip a magnet, I would do it on the Tone Zone as I have previously carried out that "half-air" mod on it, so it's already been opened up and I know what going on in there. I'm a bit more precious about the brand new Tone Zone.

Regardless though, I'm still trying to understand the earlier questions about white hot / black ground vs black hot / green ground. I clearly haven't fully understood all the factors that impact phase in humbucker and single coil modes.

Reviewing my last reply, I see that I left out a 2nd "to-do" if you do want to flip a magnet so you can combine two slug coils or two screw coils, AND achieve hum-canceling. That being, you would also need to swap hot and cold wires around on of the two coils being combined. Hum-canceling requires both opposite magnetic polarity and opposite wind direction. See the reference chart attached below, that hopefully makes this more clear. Note that if "hum-canceling" is not listed in a given cell, that means that combo is NOT hum-canceling.

It's common practice, to swap hot and cold, on the same pickup that you flipped the magnet. I see from your last reply, that you would prefer to flip the magnet in the Tone Zone, not the Air Norton. So for the Tone Zone, that would mean it's Green wire becomes the Hot Wire, White and Black get joined as Series Link Pair, and Red becomes the Ground wire.

I think this latest info. might render some of your last questions moot, so that's why I am not responding directly to them here. If it doesn't let me know, and would be glad to take those up.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Oh, ans, a lot of times when I say "opposite"or "reverse wind direction", I really mean Opposite Signal Flow Direction. Having a coil wound in the opposite direction is just one means of achieving opposite signal flow. Swapping hot and cold wires is another way.

 

[andyg_prs]

Thank you. I will take my time and read and absorb that table - although I think it still refers to individual coils within or between humbuckers.

Is there a different table or means of showing how different humbucking pickups combine (for example I had that issue with a PRS VB and ToneZone pickup combination)?

In the meantime, I was surprised to get this response from Dimarzio on a Sunday, and it does seem like the simplest thing to at first....the very same thing you suggested

It might be my UK sensitivities but the Dimarzio person always seems a bit irritable / short with me.... or is that my imagination....but the information and response time is good!

From: DiMarzio Tech <tech@dimarzio.com>
Sent: 03 January 2021 21:08
To: G, Andy
Subject: RE: Wiring


As I stated in a previous email, the neck pickup splits to the South (screw) coil to enable hum cancellation when both pickups are on in split mode. You can wire both pickups the same way if hum cancellation in the middle position isn’t important. The difference between the sound of the North and South coils in split mode isn’t very apparent in the neck position, however, and you might want to try the diagram first before deciding against it.

DiMarzio Inc.

From: G, Andy
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 6:47 AM
To: DiMarzio Tech <tech@dimarzio.com>
Subject: RE: Wiring

Hi,

I bought a new Air Norton to use in the neck position as I’ve read this is a good combination with my Tone Zone that I am using in the bridge.

They both seem to be identical in terms of wiring and magnetic orientation.

The slug coil on the Air Norton measured 6.62k ohms for me, with the screw coil 5.32k ohms, suggesting that I should split to the slug coil when going for single coil mode.

It seems that with the Air Norton in the neck position, the wiring below would give me the screw coil rather than the slug coil. Should I take the red/green to hot instead of ground, or is there something else that you would recommend?

Many thanks,
Andy

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Thank you. I will take my time and read and absorb that table - although I think it still refers to individual coils within or between humbuckers.

Is there a different table or means of showing how different humbucking pickups combine (for example I had that issue with a PRS VB and ToneZone pickup combination)?

In the meantime, I was surprised to get this response from Dimarzio on a Sunday, and it does seem like the simplest thing to at first....the very same thing you suggested

It might be my UK sensitivities but the Dimarzio person always seems a bit irritable / short with me.... or is that my imagination....but the information and response time is good!

From: DiMarzio Tech <tech@dimarzio.com>
Sent: 03 January 2021 21:08
To: G, Andy
Subject: RE: Wiring


As I stated in a previous email, the neck pickup splits to the South (screw) coil to enable hum cancellation when both pickups are on in split mode. You can wire both pickups the same way if hum cancellation in the middle position isn’t important. The difference between the sound of the North and South coils in split mode isn’t very apparent in the neck position, however, and you might want to try the diagram first before deciding against it.

DiMarzio Inc.

From: G, Andy
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 6:47 AM
To: DiMarzio Tech <tech@dimarzio.com>
Subject: RE: Wiring

Hi,

I bought a new Air Norton to use in the neck position as I’ve read this is a good combination with my Tone Zone that I am using in the bridge.

They both seem to be identical in terms of wiring and magnetic orientation.

The slug coil on the Air Norton measured 6.62k ohms for me, with the screw coil 5.32k ohms, suggesting that I should split to the slug coil when going for single coil mode.

It seems that with the Air Norton in the neck position, the wiring below would give me the screw coil rather than the slug coil. Should I take the red/green to hot instead of ground, or is there something else that you would recommend?

Many thanks,
Andy

I don't know of a reference table that covers combining 2 full humbuckers, but I don't think it's complex enough to need one either. Meaning, two humbuckers combined together will only be hum-canceling when

1) each humbucker is wired to be hum-canceling on its own (ref. the chart I provided earlier for how that is done), and

2) each of the two humbuckers have the overall same signal flow direction.

What do I mean by overall same signal flow direction? Recall that in the video that showed how to conduct various measurements with a multimeter, that one mesurement was to determine which wire of each coil is the hot (+) and which is the ground (-). That's the process that used the screwdriver to tap on and then pull off the coil and observe if the meter jumped up or down. And you already know that for the two coils to be hum-canceling when wired in series, the sequence would be as follows: + to - to + to -. Let's call that sequence "Positive First". And you learned from our prior discussions that (using Dimarzio wire colors as example), that could eithe take the form of either a) Red to Black to White to Green, or b) White to Green to Red to Black.

** But you may not know that the two coils would also be hum-canceling if the sequence went in reverse, - to + to - to +. Let's call that sequence "Negative First".

So, for Point 2 above, for the two humbuckers being combined, they both need to be wired in Positive First sequence, or Negative First sequence. If they don't have the same sequence, then not only would the two humbuckere not be hum-canceling when combined, but they would also be Out Of Phase.

As an example, reference the attached diagram that has an Out Of Phase on/off feature for 2 humbuckers. Note that Out Of Phase is achieved by reversing the Overall Signal Flow Direction for one of the two pickups, via the push-pull switch on the Master Tone Control. I.e. the switch changes overall signal flow direction for the Neck humbucker from default Positive First to Negative First. Ignore the two coilsplit switches in this diagram.

Note that the Out Of Phase effect only occurs when the two humbuckers are combined together. Each humbucker remains hum-canceling and in-phase when used by itself.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Forgot to attach that diagram. Here it is:

 

[andyg_prs]

Thanks so much Jack_TriPpEr, I hadn't quite grasped that's what I had done with the PRS/TZ combo that time, because the PRS with only 3 wires (the series link is presented as a single wire) threw me. It makes perfect sense now reading your explanation. Hopefully this information will start to stick