Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

[jonnymangia]

I just put a Phat Cat in the neck of my SG Standard and a Custom Custom in the bridge. I was initially happy with the sound, esepcially the PC, but then I played one of the PRS SoapBar II guitars and was BLOWN AWAY by the sound of it's P90's, especially the neck pup. The tonal variances it was able to achieve ran circles around the neck Phat Cat in my SG.

That said, I am going to buy the PRS for my p90 guitar, and transform the SG into a dirty, texas blues machine with Beano and the Reverend throw in for good measure. I think the Custom Custom is great for the bridge but what would you guys recommend for the neck? A couple of ideas I had were:
- Gibson '57 bucker
- '59
- Pearly Gates
- Jazz
- Alnico II
Any ideas? And let me know if anyone wants to buy the Phat Cat...

 

[flank]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

CC/PG is a great combo.....PG will be great for dirty southern rock

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

I'd bet the diff was in the guitars as much as anything else! SG's have a thin tone. If the PRS was a mahogany body/maple top model there's going to be a huge diff between the tone of the PRS and the SG regardless of what pickups are in either guitar. Lew

 

[dd12939]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

I'd bet the diff was in the guitars as much as anything else! SG's have a thin tone. If the PRS was a mahogany body/maple top model there's going to be a huge diff between the tone of the PRS and the SG regardless of what pickups are in either guitar. Lew

IIRC, the SE models are just mahogany, no top. They do have a bit thicker body than the SGs though. Also there is the 24.75 vs. 25 inch scale too.
http://prsguitars.com/showcase/current/sesoapbar2.html

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

I'd bet the diff was in the guitars as much as anything else! SG's have a thin tone. If the PRS was a mahogany body/maple top model there's going to be a huge diff between the tone of the PRS and the SG regardless of what pickups are in either guitar. Lew

How can an SG be percieved as being thin when Iommi was using one to lay down some of the heaviest molten riffs ever?

 

[rguser]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

I have a pair of phat cats in my ibanez artist, maple on mahogany body and maple set neck. I love the tone!.
not all sg's are made with good mahogany. prs, on the other hand, is known for their quality control.

 

[big_black]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

How can an SG be percieved as being thin when Iommi was using one to lay down some of the heaviest molten riffs ever?

I would not call them thin...maybe thinner (than a Paul). My SG-X is noticabely darker/thicker than my SG Standard's tone. I don't know if it is the lack of neck route, but acoustically they sound very different. Everything else affects it down the line as well (pickups, amp, etc.). Both of my SGs are still thicker in tone than my Strat was.

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

I was amazed at the sound of the PRS. The thing is $450 and made in Korea so I didn't think it would be anything worthwhile. Boy was I wrong. If you start playing with the volume and tone knobs you can achieve an amazing pallete of sounds that the Phat Cat couldn't touch. I had never been a fan of PRS before but they've certainly won me over with this guitar. And if this is what their $400 guitar with budget pickups sounds like, I'm sure the McCarty soapbars and other high-end units are out of this world.

BTW - anyone have a recommendation for the neck pup to marry with the CC in the SG Standard?

 

[ledzepp29]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

I had the same experience with the prs se soapbar. I really liked the way it sounded, especially the neck p-90 it was more strat neck pickup sounding than the epiphone 56 les paul RI i tried. The epi's p90n was a little too bassy but still nice but its bridge p90 was where it was at! Its was very chewy and crunchy, the prs was similar to the epis bridge but was a little more open sounding, that could have something to do with the prs having sound chambers...

 

[Dirtyking]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

I would not call them thin...maybe thinner (than a Paul). My SG-X is noticabely brighter/thicker than my SG Standard's tone. I don't know if it is the lack of neck route, but acoustically they sound very different. Everything else affects it down the line as well (pickups, amp, etc.). Both of my SGs are still thicker in tone than my Strat was.

My SG-X is way thicker and fuller than my Gothic SG. So much so that I'm gonna sell the Gothic and try to buy another X on Ebay.

 

[slash857]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

+1 for pg for southern rock.

 

[big_black]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

My SG-X is way thicker and fuller than my Gothic SG. So much so that I'm gonna sell the Gothic and try to buy another X on Ebay.

Awesome guitars! :beerchug:

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

The Pearly definately gets along with the CC. right now, I have a BRIDGE Pearly in the neck of my Carvin and it sounds great when paired with the CC in the bridge.

BTW, how much ya want for that PC? I assume it's nickel covered, right?

 

[Imp]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

i'd say jazz - very gary moore lead tone, if thats what you're looking for.. my experience is pretty limited with neck HBs so far though, the PG sounds like it was designed for what you wanna play!

tom

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

The Pearly definately gets along with the CC. right now, I have a BRIDGE Pearly in the neck of my Carvin and it sounds great when paired with the CC in the bridge.

BTW, how much ya want for that PC? I assume it's nickel covered, right?

The Phat cat is nickel covered and is 2 weeks old. Just bought it from Black Rose Custom Pups. I paid $76 so I'd take a few dollars off since it's so new. I would also be willing to trade it for a Pearly Gates or '59 neck. Any takers?

 

[MattPete]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

So, how would you compare the Phat Cat in the next of your SG to the neck sound of the PRS SoapBar SE2?

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

So, how would you compare the Phat Cat in the next of your SG to the neck sound of the PRS SoapBar SE2?

The PRS Soapbar pup has much more of a tonal variety. It's bright and articulate when the tone is up, and when you roll it down it completely changes...I thought I was playing an archtop...the jazz sounds were amazing.

The Phat cat is very bright, in your face and very responsive to picking action. There just isn't enough of a tonal variety when you play around with the knobs and that's what I want from a P90...versatility. When I roll back the Phat Cat it has no life. If you need brightness and in-your-face sound, it's a great pup. Pairs well with the CC in the middle position as well. Like I said, I just don't think it's very versatile.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

Johnny PMed me and asked me to elaborate on why I think the SG is a thin sounding guitar.

First of all, the SG has a thin mahogany body only about an inch thick and a mahogany neck with 22 frets free of the body. That makes for a very flexable neck and body...you don't even need a whammy bar to bend notes up on a SG: just bend the whole guitar! :laugh2:

Whenever a guitar is that thin and flexable it's going to lose alot of bass and lower mids compared to a guitar like a Les Paul...especially a single cutaway Les Paul that has a much stiffer/shorter neck.

Personally, I think my Strats with humbuckers are thicker sounding and have more bass and lower mids than any SG with humbuckers that I've owned. If a Strat sounds thinner than a SG, IMO, it's the single coil pickups in the Strat vs the fatter sounding and higher output humbuckers in the SG that makes for the diff and not so much the guitars themselves.

Part of the reason though that a Les Paul sounds so strong and solid is because it is! The single cutaway design as well as the much thicker body makes for a much stronger and stiffer neck joint and makes for a guitar with a shorter neck in terms of the part of the neck that is free from the body. The neck in a Les Paul is much less flexable and therefore retains string energy in the bass and lower mids instead of that energy being disapated and wasted by making the neck vibrate.

That, right there, was a huge part of Les Paul's intent in having the Les Paul guitar created in the first place.

All that said: I do like the tone of SGs. They're alot of fun to play and guys like Eric Clapton and Pete Townsend made great recordings with SGs. I don't find Tommy Iommi's playing especially inspiring myself...but that's just me. Just never liked that kind of music. :saeek:

Lew

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

Johnny PMed me and asked me to elaborate on why I think the SG is a thin sounding guitar.

First of all, the SG has a thin mahogany body only about an inch thick and a mahogany neck with 22 frets free of the body. That makes for a very flexable neck and body...you don't even need a whammy bar to bend notes up on a SG: just bend the whole guitar! :laugh2:

Whenever a guitar is that thin and flexable it's going to lose alot of bass and lower mids compared to a guitar like a Les Paul...especially a single cutaway Les Paul that has a much stiffer/shorter neck.

Personally, I think my Strats with humbuckers are thicker sounding and have more bass and lower mids than any SG with humbuckers that I've owned. If a Strat sounds thinner than a SG, IMO, it's the single coil pickups in the Strat vs the fatter sounding and higher output humbuckers in the SG that makes for the diff and not so much the guitars themselves.

Part of the reason though that a Les Paul sounds so strong and solid is because it is! The single cutaway design as well as the much thicker body makes for a much stronger and stiffer neck joint and makes for a guitar with a shorter neck in terms of the part of the neck that is free from the body. The neck in a Les Paul is much less flexable and therefore retains string energy in the bass and lower mids instead of that energy being disapated and wasted by making the neck vibrate.

That, right there, was a huge part of Les Paul's intent in having the Les Paul guitar created in the first place.

All that said: I do like the tone of SGs. They're alot of fun to play and guys like Eric Clapton and Pete Townsend made great recordings with SGs. I don't find Tommy Iommi's playing especially inspiring myself...but that's just me. Just never liked that kind of music. :saeek:

Lew

+1!

Well said, and I agree 100%

 

[JeffB]

Re: Disappointed w/ Phat Cat in SG

I agree with Lew in the general sense...Les Pauls are jes "fatter"

But then again....I'm not sure that means an SG is "thin"....jes "thinner"

Angus Young...Like his music or not, the fat tone he gets out of an SG is amazing. Some of the old recordings are jes that...old recordings and thus everything sounds thin...but live his tone is super thick and fat.

I do believe that with an SG or similar you should stick with a fat sounding pup with less mids for best tone.... something PAF-like...start putting JBs/Customs or other middy pups in them and they do get thin sounding.

:shrug: