Distortion: crunch vs. lead

[Fresh_Start]

I haven't had the pleasure of playing many different amps so please bear with me. Sometimes a lead guitar is distorted into a wonderful, singing tone - think "Sweet Child O' Mine". Other times there's a thick, crunchy tone - like "Self Esteem" by the Offspring.

Actually, GNR demonstrates both crunchy and singing distortion. So can you get both tones out of one amp? If so, is it simply different playing styles or something else? How important is the speaker cab?

I can get close to the singing-type distortion with my amps in combination with a pedal (or two), but the crunch is harder to find for me.

I'm asking all this due to daydreaming about a second amp build. The Tweed Princeton tone is sweet, but sometimes I need a Marshall tone. Will a 2204 clone get there? An 18-Watt?

Thanks for any help,

Chip

 

[Lespaul1981]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Slash's tone is great!!!!
He gets his crunch from a marshall 100 watt type head (different models used over the years) and often uses an EQ pedal to step on for solos with a mid boost. The singing quality tone comes from the pickups, especially neck pickup, his amp being pushed with the EQ and his ability
Any marshall type amp should get you crunch and a amp here or there can get it to sing a bit more.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

I would think a neck humbucker with a real Marshall is what you would really dye for.... But i own the 2204 and it is loud.... too loud for home use... not sure what to say tube wise... i use SS amps for bedroom levels.. Tube Marshalls i use for jams and practices.... I've never found one amp to do both for me.... But i am interested in these 18 watt clones you guys talk about

 

[Lespaul1981]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Invest in a thd hotplate. They make all amps do-able to some degree at home at any time of day.
Sure you lose some tone but the tone of a great amp is still better than that of a crappy practice amp!

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Thanks for the responses so far.

I'm wondering if a 2204-like pre-amp into a single-ended EL-34 poweramp hooked up to a de-tuned 1x10" cab (2 holes, 1 speaker) might get close. Don't need band/gig volume levels.

Then again, there may be too many compromises in that approach...

Chip

P.S. I've got a Weber mini-mass attenuator and it does a fairly good job with the Blues Jr. if I don't try to cut the volume too much.

 

[spacecaptain21]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Marshall + a Tubescreamer/other drive would probably be the trick. Just depends on the flavor you want (Plexi? 800?).

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

I haven't had the pleasure of playing many different amps so please bear with me. Sometimes a lead guitar is distorted into a wonderful, singing tone - think "Sweet Child O' Mine". Other times there's a thick, crunchy tone - like "Self Esteem" by the Offspring.

Actually, GNR demonstrates both crunchy and singing distortion. So can you get both tones out of one amp? If so, is it simply different playing styles or something else? How important is the speaker cab?

I can get close to the singing-type distortion with my amps in combination with a pedal (or two), but the crunch is harder to find for me.

I'm asking all this due to daydreaming about a second amp build. The Tweed Princeton tone is sweet, but sometimes I need a Marshall tone. Will a 2204 clone get there? An 18-Watt?

Thanks for any help,

Chip

Here is a page about Slash's rig. Anyways, try experimenting with tone settings using your favorite pedal, and instead of messing with the pedal, mess with your guitar (volume / pickup / tone) and see what you can come up with.

I find that rolling tone down a bit on my strat can result in nice smooth lead tones. Let me try to detail some tones I get for you (Lite Ash Strat, 3 x Alnico ii Staggered pickups):

1) Harsh-as-heck tone: bridge pickup (which has no tone control wired to it).
2) "Default strat" tone: middle pickup, tone at 10.
3) "Santana-wanna-be" tone: middle + bridge, with middle tone at or close to 1.
4) Arena-rock-wanna-be tone: neck + middle, neck tone at like 7, middle tone at like 6 or 5.

As for Slash's amp:

Marshall is Slash’s amp of choice, and he is the first artist to have procured his own signature series amplifier from the company. The Slash Marshall is actually a modified Jubilee (2555), a model the company only made for two years between 1987 and 1988. Because of the limited production run, Slash was only able to obtain a few, and after discussing the matter with the manufacturer, Jim Marshall approached Slash with the idea of reissuing the amp as a signature series limited edition. It went over like a proverbial house on fire. Now Slash owns a stash of some six or seven Jubilees and about ten of the JCM Slash model. In addition to the amps he keeps on hand wherever he’s currently playing, the guitarist has an arsenal of them stockpiled across the globe in New York, Los Angeles, Europe and Japan -- a precaution he’s taken ever since stadium riots in his Guns N’ Roses days resulted in the loss of precious equipment.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

I like a slightly scooped rhythm tone and a mid boosted lead tone.

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Unless the amp is VERY, VERY loud it is hard to get most any amp to sound that smooth for a lead. The power tube distortion smooths out the preamp distortion. So that is a major part of it. The eq pedal I am sure works for that as well. I do not know what he sets it like, but if it is the the boosted mids it works a lot like a more transparent TS. You will not really get that smooth a lead without the power amp distortion though, I do not think. I have never been able to anyway. The closest thing to it to me so far at lower volumes is the SFX-03, and even then it does not hurt to hit it with a pedal for additional boost.

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

OK - Slash's tone is awesome and necessary. Power tube distortion is exactly why I'm thinking about a single-ended amp: one EL-34 without ear-bleeding volume.

What about the crunch? Is that a totally different amp, different settings or playing style? That's what I really need the help on.

Thanks again,

Chip

 

[Gunny47]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Hmm, from my experience I always found the bigger amps to give me the smooth lead sound and then smaller amps to give me the crunch sound. EL84 amps arent exactly known for sweet lead tones, theyre more known for british type crunchy, dirty, raunchy - good for blasting out power chords. That's what I use my Gibson GA5 for, and for a jimmy page dirty solo tone.

I use my big Tweed amp to do my clapton smooth lead tones and of course, for my jazz clean and pushed blues clean. Of course, those tones are much cleaner than your typical slash lead tone. However, you will not get Slash tone with just power tube distortion. Slash used modded NMV heads, modded JCM800s and of course, the jubilees. Those all, especially the jubilee, have a good amount of pre-amp distortion to them, and thats where he gets some of that smoothness. Doesnt sound as dirty as say Cream era clapton with a woman tone , thats cuz slash has the pre-amp stuff.

I would reccomend you actually a Marshall DSL50. I think theyre great amps if you give them some volume and you will get pretty close to slash if you got a lower output neck pickup with a LP. As said above, most of it comes from the guitar, pickups and EQ. A lot of amps will get the Slash type sound, just make sure its a Marshall style amp.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

OK - Slash's tone is awesome and necessary. Power tube distortion is exactly why I'm thinking about a single-ended amp: one EL-34 without ear-bleeding volume.

What about the crunch? Is that a totally different amp, different settings or playing style? That's what I really need the help on.

Thanks again,

Chip

It's possible that Slash could be using the amp as either lead or crunch, and the EQ serves to convert it to the other type sound. For example, my strat sounds decent in bridge + middle through leads, but if I switch to bridge only it becomes a "sparkler" and sounds hair-metallish. I've also found that if a patch I'm using is too bright or crunchy, I can roll off some highs with the tone knob and get a bit of smoothness out of it. It's just one of those things: certain frequencies tend to influence how we hear the sound (sounds very obvious, eh? ).

For example, you can probably play Megadeth using the Distortion or Custom, if you EQ the hell out of it so it sounds like a JB....

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Use your bridge pickup for the crunchy sound, and switch to the neck pickup with the tone rolled back, and maybe add something like a Tubescreamer with the tone also set on the bassy side for the lead sound.

 

[stangme01]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

when i play strat bridge i literally turn the tone know ALL the way down! That **** is harsh!

 

[MattPete]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

OK - Slash's tone is awesome and necessary. Power tube distortion is exactly why I'm thinking about a single-ended amp: one EL-34 without ear-bleeding volume.

What about the crunch? Is that a totally different amp, different settings or playing style? That's what I really need the help on.

Thanks again,

Chip

Keep in mind that a single-ended amp will distort differently compared to a push-pull.

 

[LJ King]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

For a crunch sound, I would use less distortion and more treble/presence.

For a singing lead, a lot of distortion but way much less treble/presence.

Too much distortion with a lot of treble/presence just seems to turn into a total mush sound that gets easily lost in the cymbals.

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Keep in mind that a single-ended amp will distort differently compared to a push-pull.

That makes sense, especially with phase inverter distortion thrown into the mix. Unfortunately, I don't know what to expect in terms of the sound/feel of distortion for a single-ended amp vs. a push-pull even though I've got one of each. I do know that the guitar volume can be used to clean up my Tweed Princeton much more than the Blues Jr. but that's about it.

So what's the difference in single-ended vs. push-pull distortion in terms of tone?

Chip

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

For lower volume lead tones like Slash try the SFX-03 on the second channel gain maxed. Also try hitting that with an eq pedal as a boost. I think you may be surprised

 

[Low_fidelity2100]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

Use your bridge pickup for the crunchy sound, and switch to the neck pickup with the tone rolled back, and maybe add something like a Tubescreamer with the tone also set on the bassy side for the lead sound.

+1

Thats really all there is too it. Everyone else is putting way to much thought into this, haha. Set yer amp to give you a nice crunch sound on the bridge pickup, then for your leads, switch to the Neck (or neck and bridge together) with the neck tone rolled back, and use a boost of some sort (od, clean boost or whatever you prefer) to get some extra gain if you need it. Its pretty easy really.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Distortion: crunch vs. lead

What about the crunch? Is that a totally different amp, different settings or playing style? That's what I really need the help on.

Watch Slash's hands; he works the guitar's volume knobs alot. More volume for leads and less volume for crunch.