Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
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Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
- Thread starter astrozombie
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ItsaBass
New member
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
Any guitar manufacturer, or quality woodworking operation of any kind, who is not separating their wood based on appearance is just being lazy. If you have that much wood coming in, you are buying in large lots, with most of the boards being sight unseen. You are obviously going to separate it with your own in-house grading process. That's just how any woodworking works, really, regardless of the scale of the operation. You mark most stuff as general purpose wood, and you pull out the best and the worst of it for specific purposes.
That said, it doesn't necessarily happen 100 percent of the time, or on an extremely strict basis. I have seen beautiful pieces of flame maple accidentally end up on Mexican Fender necks. And I believe there's a forum member here who discovered that his alpine white Les Paul Custom was a flame top underneath! On the other end of the spectrum, it's even more common to see relatively plain looking pieces of wood on high-end guitars – you're just not likely to see an exceptionally ugly piece of wood being used there. What most likely happens on a large scale is that, rather than super nice pieces being held for super nice guitars, pieces of wood that have particularly ugly grain, or other cosmetic problems such as dark streaks/spots or the like, are held for opaque finishes.
All that being said, it doesn't make a damned difference in terms of tone or structural integrity. (If anything, highly figured wood can be less stable than plain-grained wood.) Therefore, I would say worse looking pieces of wood, not simply lesser quality wood.
Any guitar manufacturer, or quality woodworking operation of any kind, who is not separating their wood based on appearance is just being lazy. If you have that much wood coming in, you are buying in large lots, with most of the boards being sight unseen. You are obviously going to separate it with your own in-house grading process. That's just how any woodworking works, really, regardless of the scale of the operation. You mark most stuff as general purpose wood, and you pull out the best and the worst of it for specific purposes.
That said, it doesn't necessarily happen 100 percent of the time, or on an extremely strict basis. I have seen beautiful pieces of flame maple accidentally end up on Mexican Fender necks. And I believe there's a forum member here who discovered that his alpine white Les Paul Custom was a flame top underneath! On the other end of the spectrum, it's even more common to see relatively plain looking pieces of wood on high-end guitars – you're just not likely to see an exceptionally ugly piece of wood being used there. What most likely happens on a large scale is that, rather than super nice pieces being held for super nice guitars, pieces of wood that have particularly ugly grain, or other cosmetic problems such as dark streaks/spots or the like, are held for opaque finishes.
All that being said, it doesn't make a damned difference in terms of tone or structural integrity. (If anything, highly figured wood can be less stable than plain-grained wood.) Therefore, I would say worse looking pieces of wood, not simply lesser quality wood.
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allbutromeo
Well-known member
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
The flame top LP Customs under solid finish was quite common back in the day. I read a lot of stories about Gold tops and Customs that were stripped and refinished that had flamed maple underneath, just as there were plenty of plaintop bursts mixed in with the flame ones. Nowadays there is a much more conscious effort to sort and grade the wood based on appearance for use with transparent or lower end model lines. That being said, streaks are fairly common under solid finishes (especially with poplar), knots maybe, but probably only very tiny ones (my 99 Squire that I redid I found one about 1/8" diameter.) Then again alot of cheaper guitars use the same wood and just slap a veneer on top for transparent finishes
The flame top LP Customs under solid finish was quite common back in the day. I read a lot of stories about Gold tops and Customs that were stripped and refinished that had flamed maple underneath, just as there were plenty of plaintop bursts mixed in with the flame ones. Nowadays there is a much more conscious effort to sort and grade the wood based on appearance for use with transparent or lower end model lines. That being said, streaks are fairly common under solid finishes (especially with poplar), knots maybe, but probably only very tiny ones (my 99 Squire that I redid I found one about 1/8" diameter.) Then again alot of cheaper guitars use the same wood and just slap a veneer on top for transparent finishes
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
As you weren't specific and asked a very poorly worded question, is it any wonder that we have to answer with every possible connotation to cover for your lack of detail.
As to discoloured, well one mans 'interesting' is another's 'flawed' - people rave over flame tops I would consider boring and regimented for example.
Knots would be a no-no for solid finish, but are more likely to be seen in a transparent finish to add interest....there's a whole industry in knotty pine guitars for example. But the very thing that makes for such a nice feature in a clear finish is the worst thing you could have for solid colour (which requires almost pedantic level of surface smoothness/prep if the guitar isn't going to the bin).
Anything other than perfectly flat with your colour coat and the flaws will show up magnified once the clear is on.
As you weren't specific and asked a very poorly worded question, is it any wonder that we have to answer with every possible connotation to cover for your lack of detail.
As to discoloured, well one mans 'interesting' is another's 'flawed' - people rave over flame tops I would consider boring and regimented for example.
Knots would be a no-no for solid finish, but are more likely to be seen in a transparent finish to add interest....there's a whole industry in knotty pine guitars for example. But the very thing that makes for such a nice feature in a clear finish is the worst thing you could have for solid colour (which requires almost pedantic level of surface smoothness/prep if the guitar isn't going to the bin).
Anything other than perfectly flat with your colour coat and the flaws will show up magnified once the clear is on.
kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
They use fillers/bog/sealer to sort that out. I have seen it on a few bodies now. The paint grade wood in low to mid range guitars can have flaws like voids and knots. So ****ing what.
They use fillers/bog/sealer to sort that out. I have seen it on a few bodies now. The paint grade wood in low to mid range guitars can have flaws like voids and knots. So ****ing what.
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
In general, yes IMO. The nicest grained wood, which is consequentially the best wood, is set aside for your tarnsparent finsihes-burst and the like.
The opaque finishes, while still being up to standard, and the same grade for all intents, , probably aren't the finest reserved for the transluscnet guitar bodies- that is IF you think that the grain structures contributes to the overall tone integrity.
OTOH< I once had a Warmoth SIX piece body that showed up after the wood was aged 10 or so years, so on a body like that, unless it is 100% specified, beware of opaque colors that hide the seams.
In general, yes IMO. The nicest grained wood, which is consequentially the best wood, is set aside for your tarnsparent finsihes-burst and the like.
The opaque finishes, while still being up to standard, and the same grade for all intents, , probably aren't the finest reserved for the transluscnet guitar bodies- that is IF you think that the grain structures contributes to the overall tone integrity.
OTOH< I once had a Warmoth SIX piece body that showed up after the wood was aged 10 or so years, so on a body like that, unless it is 100% specified, beware of opaque colors that hide the seams.
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
^ But there is no correlation between pretty/ugly grain (even assuming everyone has the same idea of what that is, which they certainly do not) and tone. It depends on the individual piece. This is one of the biggest fallacies that needs to be overcome. This 'best wood' bit is a joke, if you are talking about its ability to make a very nice sounding guitar.
^ But there is no correlation between pretty/ugly grain (even assuming everyone has the same idea of what that is, which they certainly do not) and tone. It depends on the individual piece. This is one of the biggest fallacies that needs to be overcome. This 'best wood' bit is a joke, if you are talking about its ability to make a very nice sounding guitar.
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
And I thought they would have used Blackwood.:banghead:
And I thought they would have used Blackwood.:banghead:
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
No idea, to be honest.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
I think that idea came from one of Randy Rhodes' guitars
I think that idea came from one of Randy Rhodes' guitars
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
On a serious note (mostly) ... a while back I bought a Squier Mini-Strat after seeing a few in a local-ish music store. That shop had three of them, two black ones and a red one. I played the red one and loved it, so i tried out the black ones as well. But the red one was waay waay lighter and more resonant. Later that day I encountered two more black ones in the city, and they too were very heavy.
That night i did some research, and they are listed as having plywood bodies. All the black ones I played that day had been heavy, and only the red one was much, much lighter ... it could not possibly be plywood. I went back to the first store the following day and bought the red one, and have had no regrets.
So, curiously, in that instance, the black ones are probably all plywood, and the red one is .... well, I don't know, but certainly not plywood.
On a serious note (mostly) ... a while back I bought a Squier Mini-Strat after seeing a few in a local-ish music store. That shop had three of them, two black ones and a red one. I played the red one and loved it, so i tried out the black ones as well. But the red one was waay waay lighter and more resonant. Later that day I encountered two more black ones in the city, and they too were very heavy.
That night i did some research, and they are listed as having plywood bodies. All the black ones I played that day had been heavy, and only the red one was much, much lighter ... it could not possibly be plywood. I went back to the first store the following day and bought the red one, and have had no regrets.
So, curiously, in that instance, the black ones are probably all plywood, and the red one is .... well, I don't know, but certainly not plywood.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
Spalting is a "flaw". To some, it looks fascinating.
Ultimately, musical instruments are about sound. Appearance is secondary. That said, it is appealing if an instrument possesses in both qualities in abundance.
Glenn. Your OP question is poorly worded. A better choice might have been, does ugly wood sound inferior to pretty wood? The reason why some replies to this thread adopt the attitude that you are obsessing over insignificant details is probably founded on the copious evidence in earlier threads.
I suspect that Acebob could condense my four paragraphs into four pithy words.
Spalting is a "flaw". To some, it looks fascinating.
Ultimately, musical instruments are about sound. Appearance is secondary. That said, it is appealing if an instrument possesses in both qualities in abundance.
Glenn. Your OP question is poorly worded. A better choice might have been, does ugly wood sound inferior to pretty wood? The reason why some replies to this thread adopt the attitude that you are obsessing over insignificant details is probably founded on the copious evidence in earlier threads.
I suspect that Acebob could condense my four paragraphs into four pithy words.
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
I think they use 'prettier' woods (depending on current trends) for clear finishes, and charge more for it). I don't know if it would be considered 'quality' or not. I think of 'quality' as structural integrity. Those 2 are really not the same. A company today isn't going to take spalted maple and paint it black. In the 70s, it might have been never considered, though.
I think they use 'prettier' woods (depending on current trends) for clear finishes, and charge more for it). I don't know if it would be considered 'quality' or not. I think of 'quality' as structural integrity. Those 2 are really not the same. A company today isn't going to take spalted maple and paint it black. In the 70s, it might have been never considered, though.
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
Yep, was thinking the same thing. I don't think it's that companies use BAD wood for solid colors/black, they just don't use the wood with nice figuring. Ex: the maple cap on a black les paul is just plain maple, where as a trans top is going to get the pretty flame piece.
Yep, was thinking the same thing. I don't think it's that companies use BAD wood for solid colors/black, they just don't use the wood with nice figuring. Ex: the maple cap on a black les paul is just plain maple, where as a trans top is going to get the pretty flame piece.
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
I second these sentiments.
I second these sentiments.
jmh151
Active member
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
I have a 1986 Les Paul Custom that originally was Alpine White. I stripped it years ago, and underneath was a heavily flamed 5A flamed maple top, but with a knot behind the bridge- it appears they began carving the top, and as the carving progressed deeper, the knot was discovered, so they painted it White instead- I don't care, I have a flame top les paul!
I have a 1986 Les Paul Custom that originally was Alpine White. I stripped it years ago, and underneath was a heavily flamed 5A flamed maple top, but with a knot behind the bridge- it appears they began carving the top, and as the carving progressed deeper, the knot was discovered, so they painted it White instead- I don't care, I have a flame top les paul!
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
Wait what, is this a serious thread?
Wait what, is this a serious thread?
Lucy Diamond
Well-known member
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
The wood is "good wood". It just isn't figured.
Also...good looking doesn't mean it sounds better.
I hope that helps.
The wood is "good wood". It just isn't figured.
Also...good looking doesn't mean it sounds better.
I hope that helps.
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: Do guitar manufactures use lesser quality wood for guitars finished in black?
You've missed quite a bit since you've been away.
You've missed quite a bit since you've been away.
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