do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

That is what I call putting words into someone else's mouth.

It probably is, but in the words of Corey Taylor "I'm still too tired to care."

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

Would I like to have a 50-60's Telecaster of course I would. But when I compare an old Tele to a new one there the newer guitar wins hands down. The 3 saddle bridge on the old Teles don't allow for individual string intonation. We all know how important intonation is to tone. Newer Teles have staggered height locking tuners and resistance free LSR nuts. All adding to the tone and tuning stability of the guitar. I am sure if you could put a 2013 Telecaster in a time machine and put it the hands of Roy Buchanan he would be blown away.

This is my exact feeling on the subject. We live in a time period where ANYTHING you can possibly dream of as far as PERFECT gear goes is completely possible. You can get anything you want, from vintage, to replica, to modern, to space age. If you want it, your pocket book is the only issue.

Purists naturally want to like what the old pioneers wanted years ago. Forward thinking guitar players want what has never been possible. Anything is possible nowadays, from then till now. Now, it's a matter of choice, and what you want to spend your money on.

I find it funny when old gear ho's choose their new tour gear. It can run anywhere between what their first guitar and amp was all the way to whatever is now available. With the oldsters, their gear is probably being auctioned off nowadays, while they're onto something new. Then, you've got the young guy's buying that old gear, while they buy the new stuff.

My own preference is for classics that defined an era, and picking up mint museum examples of it. I've gone through a lot of gear, and that's what I dig at this point in the game. Rather than posing with relics, or buying new Chinese and Mexican crap, my favorite thing is finding definitive vintage gear that's in perfect cosmetic condition, restoring it functionally to brand new condition, and using it daily. We all have our preferences, and that's mine.

 

[AlexR]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

I don't think any audience member cares the least bit about any bit of equipment the band uses. It is only the guitar geeks who care....which is pretty much anyone on a forum come to think on it.

For the record...I like relics. I don't have only relics, and I wouldn't do that to a new guitar. But my best playing strat is a mix of a reliced body and an old-ish worn/broken in neck.
And clothes companies sell lots of distressed clothes. I don't think anyone in the developed world has gone without buying stonewash or acidwash jeans.....in fact until relatively recently you couldn't buy raw denim.

 

[blueman335]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

And clothes companies sell lots of distressed clothes. I don't think anyone in the developed world has gone without buying stonewash or acidwash jeans.....in fact until relatively recently you couldn't buy raw denim.

Do you buy new clothes with factory installed rips and tears, and pay extra for it? I was also referring to the food stain aspect of clothing. Stonewash and acid wash treatments are to soften new denim which is normally stiff and uncomfortable. People like the feel of soft clothes, which is why most fabric is treated with silicone. People aren't buying cars, furniture, carpeting, etc for that heavily used look. "Yes sir, just drove this baby off the lot yesterday. Brand spanking new. They had a guy at the factory bang it up with a crow bar so it looks 'distressed.' Pretty neat huh? It's even rusting. That option cost me an extra $1,000, but it was worth every penny. It would have taken me years to get it looking like that. I'm as proud as a peacock. Let me tell you, people turn their heads when I drive down the street, of course part of that is because the muffler is full of holes."

Are any other new muscial instruments being relic'd besides guitars? Pianos? Trumpets? Violins?

 

[LReese]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

Do you buy new clothes with factory installed rips and tears, and pay extra for it? I was also referring to the food stain aspect of clothing.

I do see new clothes for sale with factory installed rips and tears all the time. It takes time to do that so yes in the big scheme of things you are paying extra for that.

 

[blueman335]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

I do see new clothes for sale with factory installed rips and tears all the time. It takes time to do that so yes in the big scheme of things you are paying extra for that.

And again, manufacturers are able to save a large amount of money by not having to discount their flawed inventory as 2nd's.

 

[Diminished Triad]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

I'm not sure if any of the major producers also following Fender's business plan regarding relics. It is surprising that such a large portion of the work the Custom Shop performs now (at least the guitars for sale to the general public) are relics. Hoping for more work towards more comfort and improved sound, and even new models. A majority of Fender guitars now are just 9.5 radius and that kind of hits the middle. Shooting for the middle rarely gets anyone very far in the long run, as opposed to making models ranging from 7.25 through 16 radius, for example. I'm glad the David Gilmore and Richie Blackmore guitars were available NOS and without dents, scratches, etc......but so many more artists would probably have popular guitars if Fender steered in that direction. Like I've said before, really hoping the Nile Rodgers signature strat doesn't come out as a relic or even a closet version, but instead a brand new guitar. In the drum world we would not pay a premium for dented drums, and the same goes for keyboards and pianos as far as I know at least. I think it's great this fits what some prefer because the more variety and options available the higher the chances of real people playing real instruments and making real music.

 

[AlexR]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

There is one big flaw in the clothes and cars etc being used as a comparison.....these items wear OUT, guitars wear IN. Would I buy furniture made to look like its an antique....hell yes. Would I buy a car like that....no, as I'll do that all by myself in just a few years.

In fact, as an aside, the vintage cars and relic guitars seem to be approaching the same issue, but from the opposite ends. Guitars are made to look like they were made in the golden age, and cars of that vintage are restored so they look like they did when they left the factory (which seems just as unnatural to my way of thinking)

 

[blueman335]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

There is one big flaw in the clothes and cars etc being used as a comparison.....these items wear OUT, guitars wear IN.

Guitars need lutheir work to keep going too. Guitars that get regular use, especially on the road, are needing to be refretted at a minimum, and sometimes other parts replaced. I've read some stories behind favorite guitars owned by big name players, and they had all kinds of things that need to be replaced: partially from wear, partially from rough handling (which often go hand-in-hand with vintage guitars). Without luthiers, those guitars would have stopped being functional many years ago.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

And again, manufacturers are able to save a large amount of money by not having to discount their flawed inventory as 2nd's.

I aint buying this. Everyone knows the best looking wood is put on burst, or any guitar that you can see the grain through. Black and solid color guitars get the wood that deosnt have as nice grain, but is still premium wood,not "factory Seconds".I think I heard someone say that they stack pallets and pull MIM and US Custom shop guitars from the same pallet regardless of grade. Absurd!
"Factory seconds" means something entirely different than you believe.

 

[Twangzilla]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

There is plenty of money in distressed furniture, reclaimed wood floors etc. It is not just exclusive to guitars. A well worn piece is inviting and friendly and a lot of people like the way something looks when worn in or beat up. I doubt everyone notices a relic guitar but I am sure some do and think its cool.

 

[AlexR]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

Guitars need lutheir work to keep going too. Guitars that get regular use, especially on the road, are needing to be refretted at a minimum, and sometimes other parts replaced. I've read some stories behind favorite guitars owned by big name players, and they had all kinds of things that need to be replaced: partially from wear, partially from rough handling (which often go hand-in-hand with vintage guitars). Without luthiers, those guitars would have stopped being functional many years ago.

Stop being obstructive, you know perfectly well what I mean.

 

[blueman335]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

Stop being obstructive, you know perfectly well what I mean.

'Obstructive' meaning having a different opinion than you?

 

[Securb]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

I don't think any audience member cares the least bit about any bit of equipment the band uses. It is only the guitar geeks who care....which is pretty much anyone on a forum come to think on it.

I think for the audience to actually take notice a guitar has to be pretty extreme. My Iceman and Ovation Deacon always sparks comments because they are so radical looking. If I pulled out a 57 Les Paul or a new reliced one, no one would know the difference.

 

[wahwah]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

Over the years, I've found that a lot of people, musicians and audience members alike, have commented on my guitar. It seems to have a character of its own, and inspires people to ask about it, perhaps because it's obvious that it has lived an interesting 'life,' to have been played for so long. Ironically, that has little bearing on why I continue to play it. I play it because it's the best Strat I've ever played. Quite a few of the guitar techs I've had over the years tend to agree. I've never found a new guitar that has anywhere near the tonal depth of character. Of course, this doesn't mean that all old guitars are great, that is obviously not the case. I have played several L series Strats that had been kept in their cases as collector's items that were utterly dead from underuse, or perhaps they weren't really that good to begin with.

Maybe there is a difference between wood that grew naturally in a forest for many years, and the green wood of regrowth forests. Perhaps something happens when an instrument resonates for 45 years. I don't know the science and I really don't care. Science can only describe what already exists, or theorise about what it can't fathom. And there's so much that it can't fathom. I'll leave that to the men of science. But if they try to tell me that there's no reason why my guitar in its current state couldn't be easily replicated on modern machinery, I would ask them to produce the evidence, in keeping with their modus operandi. To date, I know of no such evidence.

As for taking to a new instrument with a sander, chains and car keys to give the illusion of character, I would say that it's as valid as any illusion. But, as always, to each their own.








Cheers......................................... wahwah

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

I think Fender should issue the "wahwah" Strat,personally!
(not that I'd be able to afford it)

Send it to 'em,let 'em spec it out!!!


:headbang:

 

[blueman335]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

Isn't the whole point of vintage guitars the sound, much more then the look? Or has cosmetics replaced substance?

 

[wahwah]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

I think Fender should issue the "wahwah" Strat,personally!
(not that I'd be able to afford it)

Send it to 'em,let 'em spec it out!!!


:headbang:

In an ironic twist, I probably wouldn't be able to afford it either.




Cheers.................................. wahwah

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: do non musicians like "reliced" or just old guitars?

Yeah,but you'd get to go thru teh prototypes!!!