Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

N

NewWave

New member
I decided to get myself a nice clean amp (leaning towards fender) and not buying marketing crap that will be collecting dust in a few years... I don't gig yet but I will. I play using hum equipped guitar mostly and strat for some solo that's also because I don't have many guitar yet.

My question is If i get a Twin reverb RI for clean and use OD pedals will I get the overdriven tube dynamics? (sensitive to picking) As cranking it till breaking up will blow my house down not to mention kill me right away.

If not, do you think deluxe reverb can stay clean in a band? (with humbucker guitar) And does it sound similar or the 6v6 sounds flubby (from what I heard) I like how BB king sound in 'eric clapton crossroad' (not his tone but his sound fat tight bass, clear highs) and I heard that he is playing through a twin reverb? (correct me if I'm wrong). And hows the overdriven sound of DRRI? can it do ZZTop crunch?

Or maybe vox? can vox sounds full like fender with their fancy switches (fat,bright,etc) Im talking ac c2x (with alnico blues) and nighttrain with el84/34.

I've never tried any of them yet and I can't find 1 store that have all of them (Usually stores in my area only carry one brand or two/distributors) and just getting opinions.

Oh yea, Are twins as heavy as what people keep complaining about it?
 
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Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

i use a twin and also a princeton reverb II (which is 6v6 based 22watts thru a 12 inch speaker). Like you, i mostly use humbuckers.
You can get some great overdriven tones with pedals thru either a twin or a deluxe.
I like the 22watter for a fat tone at low volumes (ie in a jazz band) and the twin for a fat tone and more definition when playing with a rock band.
Some venues i dont need to mic up, so use the amp that is most appropriate for that.
One of the great things about deluxe reverbs is that they do overdrive sweetly when you play with a band, but i think with humbuckers you will have to kiss goodbye to defined clean tones. If you want clear bass then you need wattage - there is no way around it.
IN a perfect world, you'd have both amps and i honestly cant say which one i'd use if i had to have onle one. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose, i'd say get the deluxe. It can sound a lot bigger than it is when you record it. It is easier to carry, and if you have a gig wheere it is required, you can always mic it up.
ONe weakness of both Reissue amps is the speakers. The jensen is not a bad speaker by any account, but i think you can make both amps sound better with a speaker swap. For teh deluxe, a cannabis rex will smooth and sweeten the top end (compared to the jensen), and provide a bigger bass end. They are also a very efficient speaker which will help you when trying to get a little headroom in a band situation. For the twin, texas heats will also smooth the top end and due to their high wattage rating they can output as much pumping bass you might need. Their relatively inefficient design is a blessing too - it means you can crank the amp a little more than you can with jensens for fatness that wont cut your head off.

Vox? no they wont sound like a fender, but they can sound great nonetheless.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

A Twin Reverb for home playing is really too much. You'd be better off with less output. Many overdrives work best when the amp's turned up enough to add some punch to the sound. This is not a hard and fast rule and there are about a million o/d pedals to choose from.

Twins are very heavy.

Don't understand your comment that you like BB's sound but not his tone.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

Some pedals are dynamic, some are not.

A BF/SF Fender is not really the key to ZZ Top or Cream era Clapton.

Vox amps don't really sound like Fenders no matter what you do to them.

A Deluxe Reverb will stay clean with humbuckers until around 3 or 4 on the volume...the rest will depend on how big a venue you are playign and how loud the band is plus how hot your humbuckers are.

Twins are heavy.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

I recently restructured my setup so that I'm running a clean tube amp and using pedals for my overdrive. My experience is that while the sound of a real tube amp breaking up is a beautiful thing, it's WAY (and I mean way) too difficult to do that in a live gigging situation while retaining any kind of control over your volume level. I tried it with a 12 watt tweed Deluxe and I tried it with a 40 watt Custom Vibrolux Reverb. Both were too loud when turned up enough to break up. I literally had the sound man telling me to turn down - "more" - "and more" - "keep going..."

Now I'm using a 59 Bassman reissue as my clean base and pedals for drive. There are hundreds of OD pedals out there, all with different flavours and characteristics. Unfortunately it takes a bit of trial and error to find what's going to work best for the sound you're looking for. I've finally settled on a Lovepedal Les Lius and a Barber 1/2 Gainer. Both are very dynamic and particularly in the case of the Les Lius, it sounds very authentic to what a tweed tube amp sounds like when it's overdriven.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

I believe you have to pick OD pedals carefully but if you look for ones that boast about dynamics then yes you should have no problem with dynamics.

I'm also a Deluxe Reverb owner (reissue) and I use pedals for dirt, but I don't need a loud clean and that's why I didn't get a twin or AC30. And yes, my guitar with a JB makes the amp break up around 3 or 4 but as powderedtoastman said, this can be too loud for a lot of situations, so if it's mostly small rooms you think you'll be playing then a DRRI might be a good option. The breakup on mine is smooth and sweet up until about 7 when it's very loud. At that point it's kinda Led Zeppelin I sounding, not really ZZ top-ish... but pedals can help that.

Plus, the twin and AC30 ARE heavy. I sometimes hate dragging my DRRI up 3 flights of stairs to my apartment, but I'd never wanna drag an AC30 or twin up there.

I think the AC30 clean is wonderful and can sound plenty warm and deep, and I almost picked the ac30 over the DRRI but the DRRI was quieter and lighter by a good bit and that was what it came down to. I love the sounds of both.
The night train doesn't have the headroom that any of the other amps have, and I find the night train a little fizzy. I wouldn't recommend it for you in this case.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

While you're out there playing with different pedals, don't forget to play with your guitar's volume knob. It's pretty amazing the affect your guitar's volume knob has on amp/pedal dynamix
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

I usually use picking dynamics from a cranked tube (adding slightly more newtons and the guitar sound from "tididit" to "Jezengg") and use vol and tone to fine tune my tone never know how to roll it down for dynamics. Would you care to elaborate?

@richard parker : Well.. If I said that I like BB's tone and want to get them.. I will "annoy" some people and they will lecture me about the tone coming from those stubby fingers, army cut and black tuxedo. :smash:
 
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Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

For example my guitar with a JB with the volume on full, there is a lot of compression as the average signal level is high and the volume peaks are closer to the valleys, if you get me. You can hit the strings harder and run out of headroom, but your quiet picking is brought up to the level of your loud playing.

Lowering the pickup volume a tad and hitting the strings harder usually gets me very close the same amount of gain and volume as before, but with quiet picking it is more obvious the volume is actually down.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

Ohh.. just like angus young. I think it will work for soloing but in the middle of the song, no..
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

NewWave said:
Ohh.. just like angus young. I think it will work for soloing but in the middle of the song, no..
Click to expand...

heh it just depends on the song and style. Like I said I have a guitar with a JB... a les paul-ish axe. I can get plenty crunchy on 5 or 6 on the guitar volume if I run the gain on the pedal high, and still have picking dynamics. I can ride that for a whole song and either solo on the neck pickup with full volume, or wind up the bridge volume for soloing.

There are a lot of guitarists who knob twiddle mid song. For me it beats running to the pedal and stepping on something, and this works often very very well with dirty amps and no pedals, or amps with no channel switching, and especially non-master amps.

I think learning to play with guitar volume and tone has to be one of the biggest tone revelations I've ever had.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

There are some great 'amp in a box' type pedals around. Zvex, wampler, Lovepedal amongst other will get very close to their cranked inspirations. Especially with a quality Fender blackface type clean as a foundation there are dynamics aplenty if thats how you play.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

I had trouble with using a vintage Deluxe Reverb in my old band as I was mostly playing cleann rhythm parts, and the DR just didn't have enough clean headroom. I had been using a S/S amp, but it's short-comings were quickly exposed in this band. I moved to a JCM 800 model 4010 50-watt 112 combo...loved it with the gain up, but it didn't give me the clean tones I wanted. A Fender 75 got me closer, but the distortion channel is pretty ratty in those amps. I finally found the tones I wanted in a Mesa Mark III head and 412 cab...great dynamic clean tones and the singing lead tones that Mesas are famous for. And freed up two spaces on my pedalboard previously occupied by distortion pedals that I wasn't happy with anyway.

A lot of it just depends on the role you play in the band. If you do mostly clean rhythms, you may want the 100-watter. If you're doing more crunch rhythms a lower wattage amp might work better. Playing metal in dropped tunings on big stages? Mesa Triple Rectifier. If you're playing blues in small clubs where you want your amp to sing with that that throaty roar...you might be able to get by with only 15 watts.

These days I gig mostly with one of my Mesa 112 combos. I have a Mark IV, III, DC-3, and a Maverick 212. I usually use a Mesa 112 Theile extension with the combos, and I sometimes stack the Maverick on top of a 212 Recto for a sweet low-powered half-stack. Yes, the Mesa amps are heavy...the Mark IV is about 80 lbs. So it is a load, but I love the tone and the flexibility. And the Mesas are controllable at lower volumes.

These days, I think an amp in the 35-50 watt range is all most gigging players need. I like having the great lead channel of the Mesa amps. If you are looking to buy used, consider the Nomads, the DC Series, the F-Series, the Mark Series or a Maverick. In the new amps, I like the Mark V, Electra-Dyne, Lonestars, and the new Express with the added graphic EQ. And all of these amps take pedals well and have great efx loops.

And the bottom line is simply that the modern player may need a stable of amps as large as his guitar collection, if he plays different genres and different-sized venues.

Bill
 
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Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

AlexR said:
There are some great 'amp in a box' type pedals around. Zvex, wampler, Lovepedal amongst other will get very close to their cranked inspirations. Especially with a quality Fender blackface type clean as a foundation there are dynamics aplenty if thats how you play.
Click to expand...

^^^ This.

Wampler (Multiple Wamp Pedals), Ethos Overdrive, Zen Drive are all exceptionally dynamic pedals. And a Twin RI takes pedals very well. A winning combo.

Best with it!
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

Pedals are a trend...so no matter how they act or sound, people will think that they work and sound like a tubeamp....because they are magic.....
Or not.....
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

Always wanted to try those pedal in a box (wampler plexidrive) but from my limited experience OD pedals don't have that special thing from cranked tube amp just like coated strings vs uncoated more economical but have their downside as well
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

Vasshu the humanoid typhoon said:
Pedals are a trend...
Click to expand...

A 50 + year trend that still seems to be going and growing strong. Indeed some are making better pedals than ever before.
In all honesty my Ethos overdrive does sound and respond like an amp when going direct. Super dynamic. It is the exception to the exception but even I have a hard time telling the difference between my micd rig and my Ethos direct. Pretty cool.
 
Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

Bogners pedals do! very dynamic
 
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Re: Do pedals have overdriven tube dynamics

alright, I think the bassman reissue is what i wanted.. But I've never played through 410 amp and how does it sound compare to a 212? I think 212 config is the best speakers config for me because I like the tone of bb king with his twin, I like how keith richards sounds with his tweed, I like how eric clapton sounds with his bluesbreakers and personally, never like his onstage tone (cream era) with the 412, its just too dark. I know the tweed twin is the perfect amp for me, but I would just never afford it and I have to ask keith/eric/steven seagal? to sell theirs.

and is 410 config louder than 212?

Edit : what about 212 HRD with jensens c12k/c12n will it fatten/make HRD sound fuller? Because everytime I hear a demo of HRD, the amp just sound very thin
 
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