Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Is that for a set, or just one pickup? I can see $300 for a humbucker set because you really do have to charge at least $200-250 if you wind full-time to be able to actually make a living as a one-man shop.

I think the boutiques vary quite a bit and I have rewound a couple of boutique pu's from fairly well known boutiquers that were surprisingly bad, which I suppose is how they ended up on my bench. Will not name them in part because they could have been made on a bad day for the winder and the next 99 of theirs I heard could sound great.

Others I've tried are every bit as good as advertised and then some.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Antiquities are certainly boutique pickups and they go for around $180 on Ebay.

Others pairs such as Fralins are $240 or so on Ebay and things go to $300 a pair for some.

It only gets really expensive when you want a custom wind, specific bobbin colors or other items that you can only satisfy by making a special order. Then there's the world of vntage PAFs, T-Tops and Timbuckers which I think is more insane than boutique pickups.

If you spend $2000 on the axe anyway $300 minus $100 for the old ones doesn't sound too bad.

 

[marvar]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

To a point, yes I do.
It seems that we spend alot of time chasing the elusive tone monster, trying to emulate or get close to the tones we have all heard on recordings, etc.
Yet, in almost every case, especially in the older recordings we have come to love, most of those guys just played the guitar, the way it came from the factory, stock pickups.
Don't get me wrong, I've changed my share of pups, I'm a great fan of Seymour's pickups. But is it really necessary? Shouldn't we spend the time more productively, learning to master the intrument?
Did Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Allman, et all, change their pickups before they made all those great recordings? Was it even on their mind?
I think they just looked for guitars that played well, felt good, and sounded good, and went from there.

 

[micp33]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

A gourmet dinner is usually a a great experience, but there are times when a drive-thru will do just fine.

It all depends on what you hear when you plug in and you can usually tell in 5 seconds. I have Harmonic Designs in my Tele that are phenomenal and I've pulled Lollars (which are still very good) out of my Les Paul for Duncans because they just weren't right for me.

Mic
Lucky 14 Pedalboards
http://www.myspace.com/lucky14pedalboards

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Don't get me wrong, I've changed my share of pups, I'm a great fan of Seymour's pickups. But is it really necessary? Shouldn't we spend the time more productively, learning to master the intrument?

What I don't get is why folks think that one precludes the other. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. A pickup swap takes about 20-30 minutes at most if you know what you're doing and even the wildest swappaholics do this maybe 3-4 times in a month.

So as I said in another thread, it's video games or some other distractions that cut into your practice time, not pickup swaps or mods. You really can chase the tone dragon while practicing your butt off. The problem comes in when you think the new pickup will automatically make you a better player when only practice will.

Having said that, in a way, the new pickup can make you a better player -- but only because if you really like the sound, you will play/practice a lot more because you won't feel like you're fighting your guitar for a great sound, which is a miserable distraction from making music.

 

[Martian]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

How many times has it been said even just here, "Tone is subjective"?

I've heard some outstanding and miserable "boutique" pickups. I've also heard some mutt, low, low budget pickups from the 60s that sound freakin' incredible.

Notwithstanding, I think there's too much hype. Every time someone buys or concocts a coil winder, all of a sudden, shill reviews pop up like fly turds everywhere touting this new 'manufacturer' as the premier bench mark for wheel reinvention.

Only the owners of these 'boutique' pickups can genuinely answer your question and for the price these owners (IMO) overpaid for so much of this stuff, the majority of the disappointed ones will vehemently defend their purchases whether they genuinely like them or not. So here again, you cannot always rely on an honest assessment.

The way I figure it, there are more than enough reputable pickup manufacturers out there who make enough varied production models which are capable of suiting virtually everyone. Factor in a tweak of the amp, a change of pots and/or a caps, even a change of a string set can do wonders without having to resort to a $300 pickup which to me, doesn't sound dramatically different than any $75 production pickup that I've ever heard, certainly not $225 worth of better.

As always, YMMV.

 

[micp33]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

All great points!! Playing through a different speaker/speaker cab is sometimes the most drastic and least obvious difference in tone available as well. Again, in some cases, a fraction of the cost!

Mic

How many times has it been said even just here, "Tone is subjective"?

I've heard some outstanding and miserable "boutique" pickups. I've also heard some mutt, low, low budget pickups from the 60s that sound freakin' incredible.

Notwithstanding, I think there's too much hype. Every time someone buys or concocts a coil winder, all of a sudden, shill reviews pop up like fly turds everywhere touting this new 'manufacturer' as the premier bench mark for wheel reinvention.

Only the owners of these 'boutique' pickups can genuinely answer your question and for the price these owners (IMO) overpaid for so much of this stuff, the majority of the disappointed ones will vehemently defend their purchases whether they genuinely like them or not. So here again, you cannot always rely on an honest assessment.

The way I figure it, there are more than enough reputable pickup manufacturers out there who make enough varied production models which are capable of suiting virtually everyone. Factor in a tweak of the amp, a change of pots and/or a caps, even a change of a string set can do wonders without having to resort to a $300 pickup which to me, doesn't sound dramatically different than any $75 production pickup that I've ever heard, certainly not $225 worth of better.

As always, YMMV.

 

[marvar]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

What I don't get is why folks think that one precludes the other. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. A pickup swap takes about 20-30 minutes at most if you know what you're doing and even the wildest swappaholics do this maybe 3-4 times in a month.

So as I said in another thread, it's video games or some other distractions that cut into your practice time, not pickup swaps or mods. You really can chase the tone dragon while practicing your butt off. The problem comes in when you think the new pickup will automatically make you a better player when only practice will.

Having said that, in a way, the new pickup can make you a better player -- but only because if you really like the sound, you will play/practice a lot more because you won't feel like you're fighting your guitar for a great sound, which is a miserable distraction from making music.

Thanks for selectively taking my statement out of context! What I was trying to say was, those guys didn't sit around thinking about what kind of pups would give them their signature sound. I don't think there was many people winding pickups at the time, except for the manufacturer's
I was just trying to give some food for thought. I never said changing pups was a waste of time. I've changed my share too.
Personally, I've gotten the time in changing pickups to about 15 minutes.
As said in previous threads, tone is subjective

 

[JeffB]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Haven't read any other responses.

PREFACE: Tone is subjective of course


I think the better question is: Do you feel PRODUCTION pups are overrated? I certainly do. DiMarzios...Duncans..whatever. There is a lot more crap than cream IME and "blind faith" among pup brand fans is downright ridiculous.

I think that many boo-teek pups are OVERPRICED. Not in that the folks charge too much for the time/effort/skill put into it. Simply because often I don't find they are 2-5 times better in tone.

HOWEVER, I think on average a "boo-teek" pup sounds better. Do so in my experience anyway. They are more lively, clear (in a good way) and just plain more musical 9 times out of 10. I may not always like the actual tone of a specific pup, but I feel they sound more harmonically rich and complex than mass produced pups which are always a bit flat/boring comparitively.

 

[jhale667]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Don't get me wrong, I've changed my share of pups, I'm a great fan of Seymour's pickups. But is it really necessary? Shouldn't we spend the time more productively, learning to master the instrument?

Zhangliqun totally beat me to the punch on this one...lol

What I don't get is why folks think that one precludes the other. You can walk and chew gum at the same time...

Nailed it. Why should one preclude the other? :wrf:

Having said that, in a way, the new pickup can make you a better player -- but only because if you really like the sound, you will play/practice a lot more because you won't feel like you're fighting your guitar for a great sound, which is a miserable distraction from making music.

Couldn't agree more, too a certain degree... Though practicing more - especially without the amp, will make it less of a fight with the guitar before pickup and amp sounds are even factored into the equation. But once you've got the basic physical, mechanical and sonic aspects nailed, a cool pickup or sound can make you feel nearly invincible...:nana:

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

I have boutique pups in my Strat wound by our own Zhangliqun.

He asked me what I wanted, how I played and made suggestions on what would suit me as well. You don't get that kind of help by getting something off the shelf at G.C.

I have played all kinds of pups and I absolutely love Duncans, but when all you carry is one guitar with you, it is nice to have exactly what you want.

 

[martin6string]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

No amount of gear in the world will hide anyone's inability to play.

The closest anyone gets to hiding it is with super-saturated beehive gain that makes all pickups sound alike.

+1000000

 

[DazH]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

lots of comments on price, in the US all the figures are probably right but in th eUK currently there are a few hand wound companies now & buying new from them is a good $40 cheaper than buying new duncans in many cases.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Good craftmaship is NEVER overrated.

Having said that, when you enter a "boo-tick" shop, it's mostly because you want something "taylor-made" for you.

If the guy knows what he's doing and can interpret what you said in words into sound, even € 500,00 for a couple of HBs is money well-spent.

Here in Italy the situation is that every big city has a p'up maker. The ones I know are good at convincing the customer what they deliver is exactly what they asked for, when what they actually do is to sell Stew-Mac p'up kits made following the included instruction sheet.

In my life as a pro musician, I've made a lot of blindfold tests and keep a lot records on different things as string brands just to compare what my mind thinks to what my ears actually hear, just to keep me away of believing my own hype about things.

If you should go to any guy's "boo-tick", my only advice is to go to the oldest shop you can find, as in most cases the ones that survive this kind of market and keep on going strong, usually are the ones that provide the most even results. In a world mostly ruled by hits-and-misses, I'm a firm believer in consistency. And as you all know, what made SD the biggest p'up maker in the world was consistency!

HTH,

Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
Milano, Italy

 

[uOpt]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Having said that, in a way, the new pickup can make you a better player -- but only because if you really like the sound, [...]

I disagree.

The right pickup actually plays better, the same way that a different neck or adjusting your bridge plays better.

The dynamics of the pickup make your play differently with the right hand, and with the right pickup you get the expressions that you want with much less twisting your own arm.

I noticed this the first time I used a Custom 5.

 

[formula73]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

I guess I just don't get it. I've never not been able to coax what I wanted out of either stockers (Czech Deans after a repot or the P90s in my SG) or a few trial-and-error lessons in off-the-shelf Duncans and Dimarzios. This is what makes boutique pickups overrated to me.

And what's wrong with that?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Thanks for selectively taking my statement out of context! What I was trying to say was, those guys didn't sit around thinking about what kind of pups would give them their signature sound. I don't think there was many people winding pickups at the time, except for the manufacturer's I was just trying to give some food for thought. I never said changing pups was a waste of time. I've changed my share too.
Personally, I've gotten the time in changing pickups to about 15 minutes.
As said in previous threads, tone is subjective

Sorry, I just hear this a lot, "shouldn't we be practicing more", and it gets really old. The whole point of a forum like this is for us to come in and totally indulge our mindless obsessions with gear that we have to suppress the rest of our waking life because we're around people who couldn't possibly care less. We need an outlet, a club. And here's a pretty good one.

Hopefully we're smart enough to do it mostly during music down time (when you're somewhere away from your gear), but if not, so what? Making music is fun -- but so is blabbing about gear, mods, signature tones, subtle differences that really won't be the least bit noticeable when the drummer comes in at the gig, etc., and again, so what? Car enthusiasts consider tinkering under the hood with friends fun, and we're no different with our guitars and other gear. To me it's part of the fun of being a guitar player and the "practice police" are just party poopers. Maybe the teens in here need the reminder, but the adults in here know when and how much they need to practice, and in some cases whether it will do any good anyway.

Yes, the heroes of yesteryear just grabbed what they could and played, and it was pretty much the same in NC when I started playing in the 70's. But I guarantee if there was the level of gear choices then as there are now, these heroes would be the same as us, they'd just leave all the elbow grease to their techs. (Those still around are doing just that right now.) I'm personally glad there's this ocean of choices in gear to drool over that just keeps getting bigger and better.

Ladies and gentlemen, obsess on.... :beerchug:

 

[Artie]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

Making music is fun -- but so is blabbing about gear, mods, signature tones, subtle differences that really won't be the least bit noticeable when the drummer comes in at the gig, etc.,

+1 (And I used to hate that symbology.)

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

I disagree.

The right pickup actually plays better, the same way that a different neck or adjusting your bridge plays better.

The dynamics of the pickup make your play differently with the right hand, and with the right pickup you get the expressions that you want with much less twisting your own arm.

I noticed this the first time I used a Custom 5.

I don't think we disagree at all. The sound you get definitely affects the way you play, and your description of the physical contortions you go through with a crummy pickup is what I meant by feeling like you're fighting your guitar.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Do you feel Boutique pickups are overrated?

I guess I just don't get it. I've never not been able to coax what I wanted out of either stockers (Czech Deans after a repot or the P90s in my SG) or a few trial-and-error lessons in off-the-shelf Duncans and Dimarzios. This is what makes boutique pickups overrated to me.

And what's wrong with that?

Have you tried a boutique pu?