Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

[chadd]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

I disagree. If someone tells you they are playing rhythm with their gain maxed out, then they obviously already know what they want their rhythm sound to be, and who are we to tell them to change their whole thing?

I think a simple e.q. pedal and/or maybe a clean boost, and a band that knows how to be dynamic are the answers.

If someone has the gain dimed to get a rhythm tone, I tend to question if they really "know what they want...". In more cases than not, turning down the gain is an improvement. A clean boost in the loop will work in most cases, but putting it in front of the amp won't do a damned thing to an amp that is already maxed out on gain. Well, you will get more saturation, just no bump in volume.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

but putting it in front of the amp won't do a damned thing to an amp that is already maxed out on gain. .

As someone who for many years played amps that had no loop and had no choice but to put it infront this just simply is not true. I can have the preamp maxed and still have room in the power amp. Also while the jump in volume isnt huge what i do get is compression, this allows me to get the same volume from single note lines that I get from heavy handed power chords.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

I would have gave the same 3-5 approaches to boosting a lead that I usually do.

BVut I do not disagree with your general premise. That said, I wouldn't be on that forum.

And there are some here that would give the same questionable advice.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

Dimed gain needs a powerful eq additive to recolor the tone IMO. Treble or mids boost.

 

[chadd]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

As someone who for many years played amps that had no loop and had no choice but to put it infront this just simply is not true. I can have the preamp maxed and still have room in the power amp. Also while the jump in volume isnt huge what i do get is compression, this allows me to get the same volume from single note lines that I get from heavy handed power chords.

In my experience, it doesn't make enough of a difference out front for the patrons to notice.

 

[CTN]

Definitely,nobody should be playing with the gain on their amp maxed. It's a recipe for mush in a live scenario. You want tightness, note definition and to be able to lock in with the rhythm section, then turn the gain down. For solos, IMO all that is required is a tiny gain boost to get the fluid sustain along with a mid/treble boost to cut through a bit better and maybe a splash of delay. IMO you shouldn't boost your volume because the sound guy will get annoyed and you risk messing up the mix by forcing him to re-do all the levels he established pre-solo.
That mid or treble boost allows you to cut through and be heard, without screwing around with the mix too much.

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

Using the volume pot and adding extra playing dynamics for solos have always worked for me onstage. Using different picking dynamics is really handy because you can add extra power to refrains and powerful parts and make a bigger contrast between wild and calm parts in general. My gain setting is all about getting an articulate rhythm tone, just at the lowest border of giving enough sustain for solos when the volume pot is on max. Depending on the amp, it's usually around 40-60%.

The right guitar and pickup combination is essential to get a feelgood sustain without overgaining the rig. All pickups have a little different EQ boost / cut, it takes some time and patience to find the ones that fit your style the best. It has nothing to do with diagrams and numbers as they don't tell anything about the feel, it's all subjective. The best measure is to leave the actual pickup mounted for a couple of weeks and think about how much you were inspired to play during the time. If the right pickup is in, you want to play all the time. If it's not, the axe rests in the coffin.

 

[LReese]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

I prefer Tide.

 

[hydro]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

I don't get diming gain for rhythm. To me the heaviest tones are always a notch past breakup, for rhythm and riffing. Even with lead you lose your bite with too much gain. Then again my style has never been about sustain, so maybe I don't get it.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

I use Mesa amps, but I don't ever max my gains for rhythm or lead. The answer to the original question though is mid-scooping the rhythm parts and then boosting the mids for solos. The idea is contrast. And live, you typically don't need to use as much gain for solos. Sometimes a cocked wah will do the trick, but I can always get a rich, singing solo tone from the Mesa without a pedal.

Bill

 

[CustomCustom]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

TS9 is perfect for that.

It cuts down the bass, which is really good for playing Lead IMO.

 

[JCM900MkIII]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

I switch to Master Volume B...(which will be ~3-6 dB louder then MV A)


Anyway, a saturated signal is just that...it's saturated. You can't add more gain because you reached the bandwidth limit.
Even a pedal in front (a clean boost...) doesn't "unsaturate" the signal and it doesn't add saturation to the signal (See above)

You want to boost mids for a solo. That is what makes you cut through.
More gain doesn't if you are already at the limit (oh wait, there isn't anymore gain available)... etc.




And Phil-X obviously never saw "This is Spinal Tap"...

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

I'm curious now, what amp did he use??????????????????????????????

I don't think I could ever completely gain out a Mesa, Fryette, etc. It's just overkill.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

I'm curious now, what amp did he use??????????????????????????????

I don't think I could ever completely gain out a Mesa, Fryette, etc. It's just overkill.

NO IDEA . . . good question.

I shall ask asap.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

OK, i asked him . . . lets see what he says.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

Please let it be a Marshall MG....

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

Personally, I think it's best to play with less gain then you think you need. I'm constantly turning the gain down.

Basically set the gain for where you have enough that you can do everything you need to do and then back it off where you wish you had just a little more. Makes me work harder and gives a better recorded tone.

Live, I would want the gain where I can do everything I need to do. lolz

Using the volume pot and adding extra playing dynamics for solos have always worked for me onstage. Using different picking dynamics is really handy because you can add extra power to refrains and powerful parts and make a bigger contrast between wild and calm parts in general. My gain setting is all about getting an articulate rhythm tone, just at the lowest border of giving enough sustain for solos when the volume pot is on max. Depending on the amp, it's usually around 40-60%.

Brilliant.

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

Less is more with gain, really don't get these metal guys who show up to gigs with Boss Metalzone pedals and max out the gain on them AND the amps, thinking it'll make them sound bigger. It doesn't. And cutting the mids makes it sound even worse too.

As a rule I never really have to turn my gain over halfway, on my Peavey 6505+ my pre-gain is on 4. Which is below half as this is a VERY high gain amp. I then tighten up the sound using a tubescreamer and its very clear and punchy, not some mushy fuzzy noise.

If you need a boost for solos look into a volume pedal maybe or some preamp clean boost. That way you don't sacrifice clarity.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

Also in recording you actually use less gain than you think. Multiple layered guitars create that big thick sound.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Do you guys agree with me on my statement about GAIN ?

NO IDEA . . . good question.

Sorry, man. Giving the answer you did without the contextual info about the guy's rig was a shot in the dark. I don't see how you could think to tell a guy how to run his rig with no idea of the gear involved. What if he's playing something like a Deluxe Reverb or Bassman?