Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

[master of tacos]

Does having all those knobs on your guitar (2 knobs for each pickup) impact the guitar's signal?

And on a side note, how come there have never been any HSH guitars with 2 vol 2 tone wiring? It's been done with LP's with HHH wiring.

 

[El CHupacabra]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Well I've not played an HSH w/ that setup, but most just have that stripped down wiring, I might guess for ease of production. ALl those wires for a 3 pickup guitar wouldn't make it that easy to mass produce considering it's done by hand. I'm not that sure on the technical aspects of the potentiometers but I would guess it might? I know even Steve Vai's handmade JEMS are mostly just 1 vol, 1 tone.

FOr the second part, good GIbsons are handmade and those deluxe models are limited production and they charge quite the pretty penny for them. I don't know how they wire a HHH with 2 vol and 2 tone, but it's worked for them all this time, so they're not going to mess with their formula if anything.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Taco man, 4 knobs is what every two & three PU guitar should have. You can blend PU's in minute increments, and turn down the treble on the bridge without making the neck too dark. I feel cheated with anything less than 4 knobs. You've been derpived so long you don't know what freedom of choice is.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Think of the best recordings you've heard of people playing guitars like Les Pauls, SGs, etc. What do you think?

 

[beandip]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

To be honest, everything in a guitar has an impact on tone. It's all physics, and it's only logical to assume.

But the question is, is the impact large enough for the human ear to pick up on. In my opinion, I highly doubt it. I've heard some big whoppers in my line of work, and none do I find a hint of truth in.

As for the HSH 2x2 setup, I've seen it done. The problem lies in the fact that with HSH 2x2 setup, it's not "on the fly" friendly. It's a good setup for studio musicians who need the extreme versatility (especially with a few coil taps), but for your every day average Joe who's playing a few covers in some dirty bars, there's not much use for it.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

I like the 4 knob/slide switch arrangement. I played a 335 for many years and the best sound was middle position on the three-way (both pups engaged), but every time I adjusted the either volume it affected the tone. I was always annoyed by that.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

The other thing, too, is whether the effects on the tone are good or bad. Maybe it's helping the guitar's tone to have those pots in there. Remember that this is subjective; we don't have to be true to anything except the sound that's in our heads. We're dealing with the instrument itself, not some cable or preamp down the line that might be coloring the sound in some way. We're at the origin of the sound, and we can shape it however we choose.

I've heard people try to sell pickups by claiming, "They give you the exact, natural sound of your guitar -- no more, no less." Well, they'd better be giving me something other than the natural sound of the guitar, otherwise I'd might as well be mic'ing the thing like an acoustic.

So, when you ask if those four knobs are sucking tone, my response is, "Well, if they are, they're sucking it in just the right way. If you know what I mean."

 

[blueman335]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

The other thing, too, is whether the affects on the tone are good or bad. Maybe it's helping the guitar's tone to have those pots in there.

+1. I forgot that one. Another reason I like 4 pots is that I can use two 250K's to warm the bridge, and two 500K's to keep the neck bright.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

What I think is awesome is the concept of having "more" or "less" tone, because that's not even close to how it works at all.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

What I think is awesome is the concept of having "more" or "less" tone, because that's not even close to how it works at all.

+1 If that were true, gear would be quantified according to how much tone it has. Could you imagine? Instead of pickups being priced similarly and mostly just being different flavors, they'd be priced in proportion to how many "tone units" they possessed. "Yeah, these stock Ibanez pickups are only 4 STDs (Standard Tone Denomination). I gotta get some Duncans in here and get it at least up to a seven!"

 

[Hellion]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

I have a Dean Z from 1981 that has 3 knobs, two volume and one tone. Since I personally like to roll off the treble on the neck pickup, I wired the guitar so that the bridge pickup bypasses the tone control. It's AMAZING sounding.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

That's a great idea. It might help some of those two-bucker guitars of mine that don't have the good fortune of being Les Pauls.

 

[veryhungrycaterpilla]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Master tone and master volume are all I want.

 

[veryhungrycaterpilla]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

+1. I forgot that one. Another reason I like 4 pots is that I can use two 250K's to warm the bridge, and two 500K's to keep the neck bright.

I am just the opposite. I want a warm, smooth neck pup and a bridge pup that cuts and guts like Rambo's knife.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

(sigh)

Pots don't "suck tone". They bleed small amounts of high frequency to ground. Some people use this to their advantage to tame bright pickups.

It's also important to realize that in a 2 vol 2 tone circuit, you only have one vol and one tone per pickup. If you are on the bridge pickup, no signal whatsoever is passing through the neck volume and neck tone, and vise versa. Of course, if you have both pickups on all four controls are in the circuit, but you are still only using one vol and one tone per pickup.

It's like making toast. You don't stuff two pieces of bread into the same side of the toaster, and having a slice of bread in one side doesn't affect the toasting of the other side.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Yes. Some players like to lose a little treble though - to them less treble = warmer/fuller.

I like whatever sounds good to me at the time and that changes constantly.

But just so you know: when you combine two pickups in a Les Paul you also combine the two volume and two tone controls and the two tone capacitors.

If you have 500K volume pots they function like 250K volume pots when the two pickups are combined and you lose some treble.

Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Yes. Some players like to lose a little treble though - to them less treble = warmer/fuller.

I like whatever sounds good to me at the time and that changes constantly.

But just so you know: when you combine two pickups in a Les Paul you also combine the two volume and two tone controls and the two tone capacitors.

If you have 500K volume pots they function like 250K volume pots when the two pickups are combined and you lose some treble.

Lew

None of this matters if it sounds good to you. To most players of Les Pauls and 335's it sounds good. In fact, the two pickup combo is often my favorite setting for playing rythym - and the only setting that sounds like the tone Billy Butler used on the original version of Honky Tonk!

 

[Jet-Jaguar]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

So, when you ask if those four knobs are sucking tone, my response is, "Well, if they are, they're sucking it in just the right way. If you know what I mean."

I love this quote. Sigged.

And yeah, I agree. Too many great-sounding guitars have this configuration.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

None of this matters if it sounds good to you. To most players of Les Pauls and 335's it sounds good.

+1. From an LP, SG, & 335 perspective, all of this good, especially the loss of a little treble.

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Does 2 vol 2 tone wiring suck tone?

Just depends on your set up I guess.
Personally I disconnected the tone pot from my guitar because I wanted to add a bit of brightness (that and I literally never used it anyway), but who knows, maybe my next guitar I might keep the tone pot.