Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

[The JEM Ghost]

Hi to all!!

I was experimenting a little towards droptuning using the Pitch Shifter in my DigiTech GNX3. I prefer to play standard tuned guitars, but off course, droptuning sounds great for a lot of metal stuff, so I figured it would be cool to programm different dropped tunings into the Pitch Shifer of the GNX3, so I could play them all using the same guitar that was in standard tuning, and just with selecting a different patch, I could go from one tuning to another at a snap of the fingers....

Programmed it all in, putted the signal mix to max so the dry signal is filtered out, all looked fine in theory.
Until I tried it out.... Crap, that was a dissappointment!! lol ;-)
Sure it tuned my guitar to the tunings I had it programmed for, but it does alter my sound a lot, takes away a lot of dynamics and attack, comes with a very slight delay (not realy real-time), and sounds like it has changed your amp EQ...
The processing seems to spoil the whole thing.
Conclusion, the whole idea is not very usable at all...

I was wondering if any one else tried this out, and if they had more success with it??
Or is droptuning with a Pitch Shifter just retarded??? ;-)

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

It doesn't work like you think it would. Most pitch shifters can handle a single note and work well for something like the original note plus an octave drop or the original note plus another set interval. The original note masks some of the latency involved in creating the shifted pitch.

If you remove the shifted pitch, you end up hearing the latency. The problem is compounded when you shift chords. I have yet to demo a pitch shifter that was powerful enough to shift chords cleanly without the oriinal tones included.

Even the better 24 bit rack units I have tried cannot do what you are looking for. I have an older Rocktron IntelliPitch that has a 3 note diatonic harmonizer funtion and it tracks amazingly well but it still isn't fast enough to drop tune a guitar.

It may be possible to do what you want with midi but I haven't tried any of the receint midi releases. Perhaps there are units out there that are fast enough to do what you want but I don't know for sure. Back in the 80s and 90s I was able to play faster single notes than the midi stuff could track but it may have gotten better in receint years.

The thinig is though that with the price of import guitars dropping when compared to their receint quality it is probably cheaper to buy an additional guitar for alternate tunings then it will be to process your signal to another pitch.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

The only systems I´ve EVER tested that could do alternate tunings or pitch shifting in RT on the fly, well, are:

1. Transperformance System in a Les paul: Alternate tunings, hundreds of them, at the push of a button w/ correct intonation. mounted in a Les Paul, mucho expensive + cost of a Les Paul of course.

2. Roland VG-8 (or was that VG-88) Virtual guitar system. MIDI based, separate PU mounted on (or in as with a few Fender models) the guitar. YOu can change everything on your guitar, including tunings, scale, pu config (cripes you can put even single poles @the 12th fret if you want), because the instrument you´re actually playing isn´t really there except to generate a string vibration. So to speak the outboard and much more in-depth version of a Variaxe and an amp modeler, can also do extreme pitch shifting as a function of the alternate tuning. Also not exactly cheap, but prices have probably come down since their first introduction 9-10 or so years ago.

3. Hipshot trilogy bridge. So to speak a "poor man´s Transperformance". 3 tunings and intonation settings available per string, all independently selectable with a single lever per string. Relatively cheap, except that you need a strat to mount it in as well.

For pitch shifting (i.e. an effect lowering pitch ) of the guitar´s signal, the Eventide units are IMO the best, but hefty in price and they still don´t track well enough to be used in a live setting unless you´re capable of compensating the delay manually by playing ahead of the beat consistently.

I think the lack of decent pitch shifting units in general is part of the reason that many downtune and /or use extended range instruments.

BTW part of the "Change in amp eq" is simply the way the amp reacts to the dropped notes. For example when I play my seven string and I´m doing work on the top 6 strings, it sounds "normal" compared to my other instruments that are tuned to C. But when I start going down towards G on the seventh string, it takes on a unique character due to the speakers not being as responsive that far down

 

[Kac]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

I used my boss PS-5 super shifter to do what you described. i didn't notice the delay and change of EQ that you mentioned. I guess some pedals do it better than others...

 

[TheAbomb12]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

Line6's Variax guitars I hear can do alternate tunings on the fly... and their entry level models don't cost an arm and a leg and a first born...

 

[Mincer]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

Yeah, my Variax can instantly switch, and it sounds great.

 

[Loserchief]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

+1 on the Variax. It definitely works, but imo a real guitar tuned to the desired tuning still feels way better than having a guitar tuned to standard(including the feel of standard tuning) and pitch-shifting the lower tunings.

 

[rainsong86]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

it's kinda lame that the VG Stratocaster can't drop your strings down a step or so.. the next gen. really needs to come with a midi output as well as the guitar output

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

I think I agree with most everything here. Even my rp200 does harmony (esp 3, 5) up very well, as long as the original note is there. The small amount of delay (not really noticable) actually makes it sound better on a single note line up the neck.
When using it for downtuning, it really doesnt sound good unless the original note is there. Even then its really only good for adding an octave below.
I have one patch (it was originally my patch for doing pantera) that I added the octave below to it. I mainly used it to annoy the other people in the band though, as most didnt come from a metal background.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

The Digitech Whammy does it well, except it always feels "fake", because the instrument is vibrating at a different frequency than what you're hearing from the amp.

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

The Digitech Whammy does it well, except it always feels "fake", because the instrument is vibrating at a different frequency than what you're hearing from the amp.

I never thought about that, make sense. Except you turn your amp up so high that your guitar does vibrate at that new frequency.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Droptuning with Pitch Shifter=retarded??

a digitech pedal was a dissapointment?

wow, now i've heard everything :9: