Duncan Custom seems Muddy

[jmp22684]

Duncan Custom seems Muddy to me right now... (So does the 59n... but that's a dark pup anyways). Or not so clear I should say.


Into Tube Screamer (0-10 scale): Gain 0, Tone 5, Level 10.

Amp: Road King I, Ch3 (orange) Raw, 2x6L6, Bold, Silicone Diode. (O'clock): Gain 1:00, Treble 11:30, Mid 12:30, Bass 10:00, Pres 10:30, Mast 12:00


Just wondering if its a wiring thing, hearing thing, or probably because I've grown used to my Comanche (w/ Will Ray Bridge).

Attached a diagram of how I've got her wired if it helps. Just searching for feedback. Thanks.



Guitar: ESP Custom Build
Pickups: 59n + Custom Duncan Bridge
Semi Hollow w/ Maple Top. Not Sure about back.

500k Pots - Log
Orange Drop Cap .100uF

Wiring Daigram:
View attachment ESP Wiring.pdf

 

[Blille]

Duncan Custom seems Muddy

I have to say I’m surprised.

I would not characterize the Custom or 59 as muddy. Rather the opposite.

I’m not familiar with the amp but is it also muddy without the TS and with mids lowered (you have them boosted and the rest cut)? Did you try other amps?

Did you try lowering the pickups?

500k should be fine but you may want to try 1M pots?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

I wouldn't say the '59 is dark either. Scooped? Yes. Bassy? Kinda. Dark? No way, IMO.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

Comanche is pretty Stratlike, so if you're accustomed to that nearly any humbucker will seem darker and have less bite in the attack. These are not dark humbuckers.

My first suggestion would be to roll back the Treble control on the G&L and redial your amp to suit that. (Also making sure you don't have the Bass knob on the guitar turned down...) Once you've done that you might find the amp better suited to humbucker tone.

If that doesn't work, you're gonna need some very bright & punchy humbuckers to get closer to the Comanche sound. Hum-sized P90s might be an option too.

 

[chadd]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

I run a custom in my Schecter into a Road King II and have no issues with mud. The Raw setting is pretty low end heavy, maybe give the vintage or modern settings a shot. I know the tweed has similarly prominent low end and can get bass heavy at times.

 

[Nagisa]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

Well if any humbucker is muddy, one trick would be to lower the pickup and raise the screws. Lowering the pickup adds clarity, but reduces some output. The raised screws add some of that output back in

 

[Mincer]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

I wouldn't say the '59 is dark either. Scooped? Yes. Bassy? Kinda. Dark? No way, IMO.

Exactly my experience. If the Custom is dark or muddy, something is up. Try an A5 magnet, which is even more scooped.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

A couple of suggestions -

Put Screamer gain above zero (just a touch)
Take off bass/add treble at amp
Pickup down / poles up

After that....hmmmm. I agree with everything the others suggested.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

Also I’d add....plug straight into the amp. Get rid of everything else. See what that sounds like.
If it sounds good then you know the problem lies somewhere else and not in the pickups.

Just my opinion...I don’t like when people put out advise telling others that the need to roll back the tone knob etc....
There is absolutely no reason you can’t get your tone with it the guitar knobs full open, if that’s your preference. I’ve been playing for 30 years and never, not once had to make that compromise.
Sure there have been times when I roll it back because I’m looking to tame the high end for a particular musical passage but never have I had to “settle” for something I didn’t want just because.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

Well if the wiring diagram looks good I'll experiment with pup height, pole pieces and pot values.

I agree with the last post. I pretty much gotta run the knobs wide open, and every now and again adjust slightly during a song. Playing out every weekend I need as much consistency as possible. If/when I pop a string I need to be able to switch to a guitar and play mid song. Not screw around with knobs. My rig is setup so guitars can be full throttle, because you can never get it to the same place twice on a guitar knob quickly and accurately. The eq happens at the amp and in any pedals.... Basically just a helix run 4cm for effects only and an rjm gizmo for channel switching.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

I'm becoming a full on zcoil convert I think!!

I used to think humbuckers had a deeper thicker sound than single coils. But these things just have this thick deep growl to them while still retaining clarity and punch and ..... Oh man... .they're beautiful! After using it as my main guitar for the past 6 months, I've owned her for years but the will ray bridge is ..... 6 months old. Then pickup the esp and it feels...... Like a gerreley mon lol...

But this esp.... I gotta get her into the fave territory... we're talking about a $5-6k guitar here.... she can't get sidelined!!!

I wonder if my strings are too heavy as well, I use 11s. But these even feel light to me on the shorter scale, 24.75 vs the G&L 25.5, and our group is tuned to Eb. If I put a lighter string I'm pulling everything out of tune without thought because I'm so used to the 11s. I went a month on 9s and 10s and eventually just chopped them off and switched back.... Too much retraining. It's not like I have what I'd consider a death grip either. Pretty fluid movement, just fingers trained for the higher gauge, as a lower gauge also provides tuning instability on the G&L when in Eb (easier on the singer)....

So yeah, I've gone through the things. I'll keep at it. Thanks!!!

 

[Blille]

Duncan Custom seems Muddy

I would not change gauge. I also use 11s or 12s and when I go to a guitar store where they have 9s I feel like I’m playing a rubber instrument. You have plenty to work with already with the stuff above and a lot takes less than 5 mins [emoji4]

If you still want to use your strings to be brighter I would not lower the gauge but change the material, go for daddario prosteels (or something similar).

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

Change your gigantic 100nf (hoping that's a typo) cap to a 22nf.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

I agree with the last post. I pretty much gotta run the knobs wide open, and every now and again adjust slightly during a song. Playing out every weekend I need as much consistency as possible. If/when I pop a string I need to be able to switch to a guitar and play mid song. Not screw around with knobs. My rig is setup so guitars can be full throttle, because you can never get it to the same place twice on a guitar knob quickly and accurately. The eq happens at the amp and in any pedals.... Basically just a helix run 4cm for effects only and an rjm gizmo for channel switching.

Just my opinion...I don’t like when people put out advise telling others that the need to roll back the tone knob etc....
There is absolutely no reason you can’t get your tone with it the guitar knobs full open, if that’s your preference. I’ve been playing for 30 years and never, not once had to make that compromise.
Sure there have been times when I roll it back because I’m looking to tame the high end for a particular musical passage but never have I had to “settle” for something I didn’t want just because.

Am I the only person that finds it totally weird that we as guitarists will perfect every little fine aspect about our instruments, except find a way to make the tone control work for us? If a pickup is 95% of the way there, we'll replace it with one that's better, but if the capacitor, one tiny, cheap electrical component doesn't work for us, all we can do is ignore it or remove it.

Most Les Paul's come from the factory with two standard tone controls with .022uF caps. Most of mine I currently own have a .018uF tone cap on the bridge and a .0022uF bass cut on the neck. Do I do this so I can fiddle with the knobs to get the perfect eq for every last note? No. Once I found the cap values I work the best with, I can usually set and forget my tone knobs. It also means I don't have to walk all the way over to my amp to adjust the eq whenever I change the pickup position because the neck is to boomy or the bridge is too bright.

If you spend like 10 bucks and and afternoon of soldering, you can make all of your guitars that much more versatile once you find the way you like to do it. Or you can just go on ignoring the tone control. Just my 2¢.

 

[Blille]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

Am I the only person that finds it totally weird that we as guitarists will perfect every little fine aspect about our instruments, except find a way to make the tone control work for us? If a pickup is 95% of the way there, we'll replace it with one that's better, but if the capacitor, one tiny, cheap electrical component doesn't work for us, all we can do is ignore it or remove it.

Most Les Paul's come from the factory with two standard tone controls with .022uF caps. Most of mine I currently own have a .018uF tone cap on the bridge and a .0022uF bass cut on the neck. Do I do this so I can fiddle with the knobs to get the perfect eq for every last note? No. Once I found the cap values I work the best with, I can usually set and forget my tone knobs. It also means I don't have to walk all the way over to my amp to adjust the eq whenever I change the pickup position because the neck is to boomy or the bridge is too bright.

If you spend like 10 bucks and and afternoon of soldering, you can make all of your guitars that much more versatile once you find the way you like to do it. Or you can just go on ignoring the tone control. Just my 2¢.

I agree. Only recently I started using lower value caps which is much better for me and makes my tone control useful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

18nf is $$$$$$$$

 

[jmp22684]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

It's used plenty when I'm screwing around. Live I'll use pre-eq to achieve the results, but on a more consistent basis.

The reasoning for the cap value is a darker tone when working through jazz at home. Personal preference. When the pot is wide open the cap value shouldn't matter.

These are all things I get into, I have a stash of caps, pots, magnets, pole pieces, etc... that I goof around with. (Probably more than I actually play.... a BAD habbit.... But it's so much fun!!!! Lol

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

Just a tip, but if you are using a cap value that big, you might find good results by adding a subtle high pass filter on your tone control so your sound doesn't get to bassy, as can happen with bigger cap values. I tried it once basing my circuit off of a slightly different Fender Greasebucket tone, but I forget exactly how.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Duncan Custom seems Muddy

Am I the only person that finds it totally weird that we as guitarists will perfect every little fine aspect about our instruments, except find a way to make the tone control work for us? If a pickup is 95% of the way there, we'll replace it with one that's better, but if the capacitor, one tiny, cheap electrical component doesn't work for us, all we can do is ignore it or remove it.

Most Les Paul's come from the factory with two standard tone controls with .022uF caps. Most of mine I currently own have a .018uF tone cap on the bridge and a .0022uF bass cut on the neck. Do I do this so I can fiddle with the knobs to get the perfect eq for every last note? No. Once I found the cap values I work the best with, I can usually set and forget my tone knobs. It also means I don't have to walk all the way over to my amp to adjust the eq whenever I change the pickup position because the neck is to boomy or the bridge is too bright.

If you spend like 10 bucks and and afternoon of soldering, you can make all of your guitars that much more versatile once you find the way you like to do it. Or you can just go on ignoring the tone control. Just my 2¢.

I never said we shouldn’t use our tone control. I said we should be able to achieve our tone with our controls wide open, if that is the preference. And that you shouldn’t have to be forced to roll something off to achieve that tone.
I further said that I do also on occasion use my tone control to help shape a tone if needed. But I get my basic tone wide open.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Duncan Custom seems Muddy

If both the Custom and 59 sound similarly muddy, it's a wiring issue, settings or hearing, not the pickups.