Thanks for the suggestions, folks! The DiMarzio line is not as familiar to me, so those would require more research. I have to say, the Nazgul/Sentient from the Duncan line sound pretty close! Not an exact match of course, but a lot of the midrange character seems similar to the EMGs. However, the lower midrange/bass seems a little more prominent in the Duncans. Perhaps some of this could be dialed back with shorter polepieces...? I should also reiterate that the pickups in my current guitar are the 81x/60x. Similar to the normal 81/60, but less compression and bass, more dynamics and top end clarity. Can anyone confirm if the Nazgul/Sentient are available as a Shop Floor Custom with regular black bobbins and no logo? Sounds like a reasonable request, to me anyway!
Duncan Passive Match for EMG 81/60
- Thread starter skelt101
- Start date
JamesPaul
Well-known member
bigcupholder
New member
Most of the EMG 81 sound is due to the bandpass filter (there's little to no extreme highs or lows) and the compression in the preamp. Try a 10-band EQ and then a compressor at the front of your signal chain. Start rolling off the top and bottom ends a little bit at a time and then boost the upper mids.
So I'd suggest picking a passive that you otherwise like the sound of or want to try, and then EMGify it when needed.
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So I'd suggest picking a passive that you otherwise like the sound of or want to try, and then EMGify it when needed.
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Agreed. Back when I had a MXR 10-band I would boost the pedal's input gain and set it like you said. The result was basically an emg with some extra background hiss.
Artie
Peaveyologist
I can't help but wonder if its because the JB/Jazz set is so popular, that people just don't think to try it. I've had the JB/Jazz in a couple different guitars, and just recently tried the Jazz/Jazz set. I LOVE it. (With 250k pots.)
DavidRavenMoon
New member
There’s no band pass filter. It’s basically a passive humbucker wound with 43AWG wire. The thing with EMGs is one end of the two coils is connected to ground. The other ends connect to the op amp in a differential manner. One into the + the other into the - So it’s sort of like two single coils being actively summed. There’s no filtering going on. The op amp is basically a clean buffer. The pickup itself is wound to about 14k, if it were connected in series. But it’s not.
On some models they add resistors to roll off some top end from one coil to unbalance them a little. They call that “tone modeling.”
You can find the schematic for the EMG-81 on line.
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bigcupholder
New member
You're right, there's only a high pass filter (i.e the bass is cut). The lack of high-end is apparently from the coil itself.
https://www.electrosmash.com/emg81
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ToneFiddler
New member
When playing the demon in the neck it reminded me somewhat of the EMG60. both bright, clear and tight.
I A/Bed them before typing this up, and they don't really sound close, although 2 different LPs and old strings...
alex1fly
Well-known member
If your goal is saturated tones then boost and compression into a high gain amp gets you really close with a variety of pickups. Once you're maxing out the gain you lose a lot of the nuance anyways. Articulate and clear are two things to look for in a replacement pickup. But the boost and compression part of the signal path is crucial.
Closest or not, I would say anyone who likes the general 81 vibe will love the BW. Even the x2n works great for that general sound IMO.
freefrog
Well-known member
What I always find interesting in the electrosmash page that you mention is the last screenshot, showing how the bass response of the EMG would rise or decrease with different coupling caps @ the inputs of the op amp (47nF or 10nF instead of the stock 22nF).
For the record, here is also an empirical test comparing the induced frequency responses of an EMG81 and a DiMarzio Evolution: https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/th...scrollTo=92593
It's true that ideally, one would have to add some high pass / bass cut filtering to a passive PU in order to make it sound closer to the EMG.
FOOTNOTE - once again, thx to DavidRavenMoon for sharing his knowledge for decades on the web.
Isn't the opamp slightly different on the newer emgs vs those old-logo units? I long ago sold the only new logo 81s I had, but I think they actually had the older opamps since they were from around 2012-13.
Someone on here once posted a quote from an email or something unofficial from an emg customer service or tech guy that said something to that affect. They only changed because the original opamps were no longer available. Anyways there was a comparison done by someone demonstrating that they just did not sound as good as they used to,,,,,,,although that is essentially an opinion not a fact.
Someone on here once posted a quote from an email or something unofficial from an emg customer service or tech guy that said something to that affect. They only changed because the original opamps were no longer available. Anyways there was a comparison done by someone demonstrating that they just did not sound as good as they used to,,,,,,,although that is essentially an opinion not a fact.
Masta' C
Well-known member
That's not necessarily an apples-to-apples comparison, but it doesn't really matter...at some point you just have to use your ears
As you can tell from the various recordings I've posted from multiple players/sources, which have the most "real world" applicability, the EMG and Evo are reasonably similar. You're never going to get a 100% accurate facsimile of an EMG 81 in a passive pickup due to core design differences/limitations. That's really all that graph above is showing.
However, it's fairly clear that someone looking for an "EMG 81 sound in a passive design" will typically be happiest with an Evolution or something like a Black Winter set. That's just the way it is...
freefrog
Well-known member
I've no horse in this race and I've never said that an EMG couldn't be emulated by an Evo or other passive PU's. There's many ways to skin a cat. That being said, I simply and peacefully think that it's not useless to be aware of how EMG preamps shape the electrically induced response, which is never dissociated from the final tone IME (resonant peaks compared to 5spice sims and to musical tracks judged by ears being my own way to work in the "real world", BTW. For instance that's exactly how I've personally helped a winder to "correct" an innovative pickup design a while back).
In the case of EMG's, I've found interesting to notice how the electrically induced Rz mentioned in my previous post reflects the simulation published by Electrosmash: https://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/emg81/emg81-frequency-response.png
I find also interesting that other measurements done with an EMG 85 give the same kind of curve than with the 81: https://imgur.com/StsLzxY
... all these words having for only goal to share some ideas with those who like EMG's, anyway.
Masta' C
Well-known member
I agree that the old-school EMG humbucker response curves are very unique. I know you can actually get a very similar curve with virtually any passive and the EMG SPC, but that defeats the purpose of staying "passive" and there's really no passive model with a curve like that on its own (at least that I'm aware of).
Nonetheless, when all variables are in play and we're looking at "real world" applicability, some passive models are clearly better suited for emulating the "EMG" sound and feel than others. That's all I was getting at.
I appreciate your insights and deeper ways of thinking about things, as always
:beerchug:
Nonetheless, when all variables are in play and we're looking at "real world" applicability, some passive models are clearly better suited for emulating the "EMG" sound and feel than others. That's all I was getting at.
I appreciate your insights and deeper ways of thinking about things, as always
:beerchug:
