E standard vs alternate tunings
- Thread starter Willy25
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Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
Over the years(more like decades now) I've went back and forth throughout the range of low-tunings for 6-strings, not much into the drops, mainly stuck with standards.
D-st(10.5-52) is my main and I have a few at Eb(10-50) and one at C#-st(11-54).
I don't really mind E with a 9-46 set, but that's never how they come, and since it's got to be changed anyways might as well have some lower notes.
Beyond mid-50 gauges (like 56 absolute max) just aren't as enjoyable for me to play on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe just weak hands lol.
Over the years(more like decades now) I've went back and forth throughout the range of low-tunings for 6-strings, not much into the drops, mainly stuck with standards.
D-st(10.5-52) is my main and I have a few at Eb(10-50) and one at C#-st(11-54).
I don't really mind E with a 9-46 set, but that's never how they come, and since it's got to be changed anyways might as well have some lower notes.
Beyond mid-50 gauges (like 56 absolute max) just aren't as enjoyable for me to play on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe just weak hands lol.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
Cool...
I barely have my head around open G, basically a poor man's Keef. I wish I had some good transcriptions of alternate tuned Led Zeppelin songs.
Cool...
I barely have my head around open G, basically a poor man's Keef. I wish I had some good transcriptions of alternate tuned Led Zeppelin songs.
2ndhandband
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
Massive perhaps... but also tight and articulate? That's gotta be there too. My gold standard as a soundman is that I shouldn't have to sacrifice one instrument for another. I want everything to be heard! The most common thing I see in those situations is the bass guitar being sacrificed for the guitars, because the guitars are invading the bass guitar's frequency range. Now maybe I'm a little old fashioned here; I grew up on Sabbath and Maiden and I want to hear EVERY NOTE the bass player is playing. He's playing a musical part, not just making the bottom end fuller. Ever been to a Maiden gig? It's an education if you ever do live sound. You'll be in a sports arena which is the worst sounding room on the planet, there are three guitars and a backstage keyboardist and I can hear the bass notes. This is partly because all of the instruments stay in their own sonic territory, partly because they have one HELL of a sound engineer, and partly because Harris and his bass techs know better than to sacrifice articulation for thunder when dialing his tone.
The other big issue is multiple guitars, and this applies even to metal bands tuned all the way up. You get two guys trying for exactly the same super-aggressive chunky massive sound and it's almost impossible to keep them separate in the mix. I saw Queensryche a few months back in a pretty good sounding room with an excellent perma-mounted line array, and I thought their engineer did a very good job. But the guitar players had almost identical tones and guess what... whichever guitarist was playing the least important part was basically inaudible all the time unless somebody was taking a solo. The soundman was obviously quite deliberately sacrificing one for the other just to keep the mix tight, and this should not be happening ever. It exacerbated tremendously if you have guitars tuned way down to the basement. It's harder to get articulation at lower frequencies even when you're NOT dealing with an instrument with too short a scale for it. I really wish guitarists who wanted to go that low would at least get baritone guitars.
Once again, articulation is everthing in a live mix, and as a soundman I'll sacrifice anything to get it. I'll brutalize your tone if that's what it takes to make you and your bandmates audible and clearly defined. If you have that massively downtuned thing going on you probably don't even wanna know how much I'm taking out of your lower mids just because I want every instrument articulate and audible and I WILL have it. On the other hand if you have a tone that sits well in the mix on it's own, I'll leave it alone even if it's a tone I don't like.
Massive perhaps... but also tight and articulate? That's gotta be there too. My gold standard as a soundman is that I shouldn't have to sacrifice one instrument for another. I want everything to be heard! The most common thing I see in those situations is the bass guitar being sacrificed for the guitars, because the guitars are invading the bass guitar's frequency range. Now maybe I'm a little old fashioned here; I grew up on Sabbath and Maiden and I want to hear EVERY NOTE the bass player is playing. He's playing a musical part, not just making the bottom end fuller. Ever been to a Maiden gig? It's an education if you ever do live sound. You'll be in a sports arena which is the worst sounding room on the planet, there are three guitars and a backstage keyboardist and I can hear the bass notes. This is partly because all of the instruments stay in their own sonic territory, partly because they have one HELL of a sound engineer, and partly because Harris and his bass techs know better than to sacrifice articulation for thunder when dialing his tone.
The other big issue is multiple guitars, and this applies even to metal bands tuned all the way up. You get two guys trying for exactly the same super-aggressive chunky massive sound and it's almost impossible to keep them separate in the mix. I saw Queensryche a few months back in a pretty good sounding room with an excellent perma-mounted line array, and I thought their engineer did a very good job. But the guitar players had almost identical tones and guess what... whichever guitarist was playing the least important part was basically inaudible all the time unless somebody was taking a solo. The soundman was obviously quite deliberately sacrificing one for the other just to keep the mix tight, and this should not be happening ever. It exacerbated tremendously if you have guitars tuned way down to the basement. It's harder to get articulation at lower frequencies even when you're NOT dealing with an instrument with too short a scale for it. I really wish guitarists who wanted to go that low would at least get baritone guitars.
Once again, articulation is everthing in a live mix, and as a soundman I'll sacrifice anything to get it. I'll brutalize your tone if that's what it takes to make you and your bandmates audible and clearly defined. If you have that massively downtuned thing going on you probably don't even wanna know how much I'm taking out of your lower mids just because I want every instrument articulate and audible and I WILL have it. On the other hand if you have a tone that sits well in the mix on it's own, I'll leave it alone even if it's a tone I don't like.
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2ndhandband
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
Transcriptions are a wrong road here. Just get into a new tuning and play around. Find what works. Open G is ground zero; lots of great rock music is written in it. But it's just a for-starters.
Transcriptions are a wrong road here. Just get into a new tuning and play around. Find what works. Open G is ground zero; lots of great rock music is written in it. But it's just a for-starters.
DeadandBuried
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
I started playing in standard and tinkered with drop d, when I was a teenager I thought it was awesome purely cos of hte minimal effort it took to fret powerhords.
Then I got into a bit more pop punk which some used drop c# then heavier stuff, in drop c. I started listening to more metalcore bands and they went as low as drop Bb/A#. I do like the low tunings but I just think ever since 2009 or whatever when this whole heavier stuff came out everyone just tunes lower so they sound "heavier". But I know Dillinger Escape Plan play in standard and they're still heavy. The Devil Wears Prada only tune to drop d and Lamb of God are in Eb standard. So its more about the riff, not the tuning that makes you heavy!
I started playing in standard and tinkered with drop d, when I was a teenager I thought it was awesome purely cos of hte minimal effort it took to fret powerhords.
Then I got into a bit more pop punk which some used drop c# then heavier stuff, in drop c. I started listening to more metalcore bands and they went as low as drop Bb/A#. I do like the low tunings but I just think ever since 2009 or whatever when this whole heavier stuff came out everyone just tunes lower so they sound "heavier". But I know Dillinger Escape Plan play in standard and they're still heavy. The Devil Wears Prada only tune to drop d and Lamb of God are in Eb standard. So its more about the riff, not the tuning that makes you heavy!
2ndhandband
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
True story. the fist two sabbath records are in standard and they're plenty heavy.
True story. the fist two sabbath records are in standard and they're plenty heavy.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
I tune to Drop C. Have always been more comfortable with drop tunings. Many of my favorite tones come from bands that tune to Drop C or C Standard. It's not about how heavy it sounds, though. It's just that the tone of that low C feels familiar.
I tune to Drop C. Have always been more comfortable with drop tunings. Many of my favorite tones come from bands that tune to Drop C or C Standard. It's not about how heavy it sounds, though. It's just that the tone of that low C feels familiar.
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Thundermtn
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
Count me in the camp that doesn't want to sound like Vai or Satch.
I'm a riff worshiper, that's why I started. I'd rather sound like Tony Iommi or Keith Richards or J.Yuenger, than Herman Li or Malmsteen.
I'm gonna get flamed for saying this but here it goes. While the shredders may be very talented technically the songs come off as half speed noodling and half ego stroking. Mostly the only guys that care about it are guitar players. A good riff will be famous and recognizable for decades, a guitar solo with the exception of a few like Van Halen's, Eruption are not what makes or breaks a song. I'm not saying I don't think those guys are talented playing at light speed with amazing technique, but I get sick of listening to it after about five minutes.
Count me in the camp that doesn't want to sound like Vai or Satch.
I'm a riff worshiper, that's why I started. I'd rather sound like Tony Iommi or Keith Richards or J.Yuenger, than Herman Li or Malmsteen.
I'm gonna get flamed for saying this but here it goes. While the shredders may be very talented technically the songs come off as half speed noodling and half ego stroking. Mostly the only guys that care about it are guitar players. A good riff will be famous and recognizable for decades, a guitar solo with the exception of a few like Van Halen's, Eruption are not what makes or breaks a song. I'm not saying I don't think those guys are talented playing at light speed with amazing technique, but I get sick of listening to it after about five minutes.
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
Periphery isn't exactly known for playing power chords. You listen to their music live and tell me that there's no articulation. Backing off on gain helps in these situations.
Periphery isn't exactly known for playing power chords. You listen to their music live and tell me that there's no articulation. Backing off on gain helps in these situations.
2ndhandband
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
Backing off gain does help. A lot. I would be interested to hear their live mix, in particular measured against my gold standard of can I hear every single note the bass guitarist is playing? That's usually the first thing to get tossed in that kind of music.
Backing off gain does help. A lot. I would be interested to hear their live mix, in particular measured against my gold standard of can I hear every single note the bass guitarist is playing? That's usually the first thing to get tossed in that kind of music.
metalchurch79
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
I played in C# standard for about 6 years and then one day I tuned up to Eb to jam along with some Slayer and it was very refreshing because it just sounded crisper and more defined. I've been there ever since like '06. I do have a guitar in E,D,and C# just so I don't have to mess with a Floyd only for a few songs...
I use 8-38's and 9-42's so I'm certainly on the opposite end of the spectrum from what's popular. My general thinking is that the Bass player can do his job and I'll do mine.
I played in C# standard for about 6 years and then one day I tuned up to Eb to jam along with some Slayer and it was very refreshing because it just sounded crisper and more defined. I've been there ever since like '06. I do have a guitar in E,D,and C# just so I don't have to mess with a Floyd only for a few songs...
I use 8-38's and 9-42's so I'm certainly on the opposite end of the spectrum from what's popular. My general thinking is that the Bass player can do his job and I'll do mine.
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
For that band in particular, the bass is usually playing the same thing as the guitars. Not that's that's an excuse, but I would have to hear them again live to tell you whether or not you can.
For that band in particular, the bass is usually playing the same thing as the guitars. Not that's that's an excuse, but I would have to hear them again live to tell you whether or not you can.
2ndhandband
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
i wouldn't be able to miss it... one side effect of having worked as a live sound engineer is that it's impossible to see a show without critiquing the mix.
i wouldn't be able to miss it... one side effect of having worked as a live sound engineer is that it's impossible to see a show without critiquing the mix.
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
I guess I can just turn off the analyst side of me. It does make it easier to enjoy life. I go to school for audio engineering and I saw Coheed a couple weeks ago and wasn't standing around critiquing the mix.
I guess I can just turn off the analyst side of me. It does make it easier to enjoy life. I go to school for audio engineering and I saw Coheed a couple weeks ago and wasn't standing around critiquing the mix.
2ndhandband
New member
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
Wait'll you have a thousand or so shows under your belt and get back to me...
EDITED TO ADD: seriously, you'll reach a point at which you can't take the hat off. You'll be sitting there at a show going c'mon ******* take some of the compression off those drums and bring 'em back a few db or somebody is going to DIE!!!
Wait'll you have a thousand or so shows under your belt and get back to me...
EDITED TO ADD: seriously, you'll reach a point at which you can't take the hat off. You'll be sitting there at a show going c'mon ******* take some of the compression off those drums and bring 'em back a few db or somebody is going to DIE!!!
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Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: E standard vs alternate tunings
I noticed that with some of the high frequencies in the cymbals at that show but it wasn't too major. But I am sure that I'll get to that point.
Wait'll you have a thousand or so shows under your belt and get back to me...
EDITED TO ADD: seriously, you'll reach a point at which you can't take the hat off. You'll be sitting there at a show going c'mon ******* take some of the compression off those drums and bring 'em back a few db or somebody is going to DIE!!!
I noticed that with some of the high frequencies in the cymbals at that show but it wasn't too major. But I am sure that I'll get to that point.
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