Easy pickup changing solution

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Here's a problem the quick-change artists haven't thought of that might finally put an end to these threads. The quick connects obviously have to be at a certain point on the wire. Yes, the end of course. Duh, you say.

But where should the end be -- or in other words, what about lead length? What if they make it long enough for a 335 or an archtop and you want to install it in your Strat? Now it's too long, takes up too much space in the control cavity and rubbing up against the 5-way switch, maybe even bending the lugs or something. Or...what if they make the leads shorter for a Strat and you want to put it in your L5? The controls are now light years out of reach of the short leads.

Some of you might answer that you just either cut the lead for the first example or add an extension for the second example and then reinstall the quick connector on the new end -- but by then you've gone to more trouble than it would been to just solder them in "old school".

Oh and by the way, how do you do quick connect on a 335 when you have to yank everything out through either the F-hole or the bridge pu cavity? Trust me, there's nothing quick about that.

We pickup winders great and small really don't know what the right lead length is for your guitar. It's not quite as big a problem for an all custom-wind little guy but for the medium to large winders, they need to be able to stock the shelves with pickups that will work in any guitar that will take that particular type of pickup, and don't need to be hassled by refunds because the customer didn't check the lead length on the box, etc., or have a stack of Strat length pickups collecting dust on the store shelf because everybody who came in that month needs long leads. It's far less misery to just make it with a universal long lead and let the customer cut it to the right length.

So maybe THAT'S why we don't go quick-connect.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I've used an improvised quick-change system for years now...

...surprisingly, I've had 3 factory-soldered pickup selector switches fail before the terminal connections ever did (which they haven't so far)

 

[dominus]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Here's a problem the quick-change artists haven't thought of that might finally put an end to these threads. The quick connects obviously have to be at a certain point on the wire. Yes, the end of course. Duh, you say.

But where should the end be -- or in other words, what about lead length? What if they make it long enough for a 335 or an archtop and you want to install it in your Strat? Now it's too long, takes up too much space in the control cavity and rubbing up against the 5-way switch, maybe even bending the lugs or something. Or...what if they make the leads shorter for a Strat and you want to put it in your L5? The controls are now light years out of reach of the short leads.

Some of you might answer that you just either cut the lead for the first example or add an extension for the second example and then reinstall the quick connector on the new end -- but by then you've gone to more trouble than it would been to just solder them in "old school".

Oh and by the way, how do you do quick connect on a 335 when you have to yank everything out through either the F-hole or the bridge pu cavity? Trust me, there's nothing quick about that.

We pickup winders great and small really don't know what the right lead length is for your guitar. It's not quite as big a problem for an all custom-wind little guy but for the medium to large winders, they need to be able to stock the shelves with pickups that will work in any guitar that will take that particular type of pickup, and don't need to be hassled by refunds because the customer didn't check the lead length on the box, etc., or have a stack of Strat length pickups collecting dust on the store shelf because everybody who came in that month needs long leads. It's far less misery to just make it with a universal long lead and let the customer cut it to the right length.

So maybe THAT'S why we don't go quick-connect.

I had to read your post twice, and just couldn't fathom the overthinking.

Pickups typically come with 12" leads. With a quick connect, it would still come with a 12" lead, but perhaps the manufacturer would make ***optional*** 6", 18", and maybe even 24" leads.

I don't think anyone has been talking about the end of the wires that connect to the pots, *just* the pickup itself. That said, GFS' solderless system for hooking up pickups is pretty well thought out, except for the jack being hard wired to the battery connector on the stereo jack for actives. They even have 250k and 500k pots and switches with connectors. Just have your 5 pin connector on the pickup, and a quick connect cable having a 5 pin connector on one end and 5 single connectors on the other end. Have jumpers available for series / parallel wiring. Boom.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I can see Zhang's point; you have Tele control cavities that are traditionally just big enough for the components and minimal wires, and any excess gets in the way of something, be it under the pot or tangled up in the switch. As well, not all Strats have a swimming pool route, where excess wire could be bundled so only the minimum reaches the controls.

The OP's idea/mockup shows the quick-connector on the pickup itself, either EMG style or battery style (which I do like better - each conductor runs to a metal strip instead of a bendable prong, and those strips match up to strips on a cavity-mounted contact plate, which in turn has a set of pins in the control cavity for the single-wire plugs as on the GFS switch above). Essentially this would negate the issue of lead length entirely, as the guitar itself would be fitted with the components, either at the factory or as a user/aftermarket mod.

Pickup makers could actually implement a hybrid system immediately by simply tapping the coil wires out to a contact plate on the bottom of the baseplate, yet still retain the traditional leads for traditional hookups.

Assuming the pin arrangement was standardized among those makers who wish to participate. If the format was patented and protected, the only way to get in on it would be a license, and the license would stipulate following a standardized pin arrangement i.e. North Start pin 1, North Finish Pin 2, etc.

At that point, color coding wouldn't matter.


However, this would also bring up the old argument of direct-mounting vs ring mounting, as the pickups would have to be assured of contact with the receiving plate.


An after-market system could be devised, though.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

As for extensions for overly-long lead runs, I see no problem there. Plug an extension into the pickup leads and it's done. Still faster than soldering.

 

[dukebox]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Maybe guitarists like the sense of permanence that is lost when things become too modular. I've come to think of the pickup as being a part of the guitar's identity, and if it were "plug and play", it might make me think less of the guitar.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

On one hand, I can see that logic. On the other, I can't. The right pickup in the right guitar is a magical combo. Obviously once you found that combo, you'd have no need to swap. However, the length of that journey varies from person to person, so a modular system would eliminate the "still haven't found it, but it's such a hassle that I'll settle for less than I wanted".

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

- Pickups typically come with 12" leads. With a quick connect, it would still come with a 12" lead, but perhaps the manufacturer would make ***optional*** 6", 18", and maybe even 24" leads.

- I don't think anyone has been talking about the end of the wires that connect to the pots, *just* the pickup itself.

- What length do stores carry? Zhang made a valid point: whatever length you want, the store's probably out of them. They're not going to carry multiple lengths for one PU model. They don't carry many PU's to begin with.

- I think most of us have been talking about soldering were the wires connect to the pots.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

- As for extensions for overly-long lead runs, I see no problem there. Plug an extension into the pickup leads and it's done. Still faster than soldering.

- Pickup makers could actually implement a hybrid system immediately by simply tapping the coil wires out to a contact plate on the bottom of the baseplate, yet still retain the traditional leads for traditional hookups. Assuming the pin arrangement was standardized among those makers who wish to participate. If the format was patented and protected, the only way to get in on it would be a license, and the license would stipulate following a standardized pin arrangement i.e. North Start pin 1, North Finish Pin 2, etc.

- What about narrow PU wire channels in guitars? I've struggled to get thicker wires thru some of them; no way any connector would fit. It would have to be removed to get the old PU out, and removed on the new PU to get that in.

- Do you honestly see the big PU makers coming to a consensus on this and spending the resources to implement it?

 

[dominus]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

- What length do stores carry? Zhang made a valid point: whatever length you want, the store's probably out of them. They're not going to carry multiple lengths for one PU model. They don't carry many PU's to begin with.

- I think most of us have been talking about soldering were the wires connect to the pots.

*snark on* Nobody buys things from stores anymore, we have the internet grandpa. *snark off*

You also would have a hard time buying 4 conductor wire from music stores, as they don't carry that either. Moot point.

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

- What about narrow PU wire channels in guitars? I've struggled to get thicker wires thru some of them; no way any connector would fit. It would have to be removed to get the old PU out, and removed on the new PU to get that in.

- Do you honestly see the big PU makers coming to a consensus on this and spending the resources to implement it?

The connectors I use are no wider than the wire+ heat shrink tubing.

I think it would be best doing this to just use 12 inch wire. you can coil the excess in a tele without problem. It would mean in guitars which required an abnormally long length of wire you could sell an extension.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

*snark on* Nobody buys things from stores anymore, we have the internet grandpa. *snark off*

'Stores' include online dealers.

You're still thinking no one here has been talking about soldering wires to pots? You must have dozed off again.

 

[omg81]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I thought, why don't they do that at the larger music shops, have a 'seymour stand' with a whole bunch of pickups and a test guitar which you could quickly try, and then order the one you like. It's taken me 20 years and hundreds and hundreds of $ and man hours through trial and error to find my tone. Something like your idea above would have saved me so much time and money.

I wonder why they don't try harder to save you all your money...

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Wonder why do pickup manufacturers not haste to really simplify the process of pickups changing? I mean some solutions that make changing process really fast and easy "plug-n-play". Just as easy as to change a battery in those panasonic cordless phones. Some cassette principle like putting pickup into holder:?:

It feels to me like it's gotten away from Supra's original premise... that the pickup would be some kind of cassette that could easily "snap" in and out. Somehow everyone got talking about standardized wiring, to solder or not to solder, and other stuff, but I've seen only a few posts that are acknowledging this idea as it was presented.

To me, it's one of those ideas that some will love and some will hate... but I'll bet it would sell. Nearly every market for everything has it's share of die-hard traditionalists and people who think outside the box... and both sides have equal merit. My point is that many of us already do things like trying to get our humbuckers to sound like single-coils by splitting the coils. Everybody knows it's not perfect, but it does get you closer to the sound you were looking for without having to change guitars. No... your LP won't ever sound like a Tele, but if you just want it to be closer to the sound at the flick of a switch, you split the coil. If you really want the LP sound AND the Tele sound during your session, you have to bring two guitars.

But if you had the ability to change the pickup itself in only a few seconds, wouldn't that be handy for at least some of you? Personally I'd love it. No... your LP still won't ever sound like a Tele, but you may be even closer than before. If nothing else, it may be like that pedal you bought thinking you'd use it, but didn't... yet you still hold onto it, you know... just in case. Also, for finding the perfect pickup for a guitar... wow, you'd have to dig how easy it would be to hear the difference in under a minute. I like the imaginative ideas that Harmonix1234 had in post #30... take a moment and go back to read it.

I think it's a great idea, Supra. Admittedly there would be hurdles to jump to get it going (meaning it might never happen), but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

 

[dominus]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

- What length do stores carry? Zhang made a valid point: whatever length you want, the store's probably out of them. They're not going to carry multiple lengths for one PU model. They don't carry many PU's to begin with.

- I think most of us have been talking about soldering were the wires connect to the pots.

'Stores' include online dealers.

You're still thinking no one here has been talking about soldering wires to pots? You must have dozed off again.

If the online dealers are going to carry the pickups, they'll carry the wiring too. That would just be common sense. Of course, the majority of them don't have the 4 conductor cable to extend wires either, so your earlier point is still negated. Case in point, banjomikez on eBay has hundreds of different pickups, including pretty much the full stock of Duncans, Dimarzios, and EMGs. They have all the EMG wiring and parts available but no 2 or 4 conductor wiring for extending leads on passive pickups.

 

[SoundAt11]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

The easiest solution might be for a potentiometers and switches to come with Liberator style screw terminals. That negates the wire-length issue and doesn't involve any new connectors or cooperation on the part of the pickup manufacturers. Eventually, new guitars could be built with these screw-terminal pots and switches and people could still cut and strip wire as needed, but we wouldn't be frying pots, smelling fumes, or accidentally burning anything.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I certainly don't believe pickup makers would agree on a standard. A big name guitar manufacturer would have to implement the system and use it exclusively, just like they did with pickup dimensions way back when. "You want your pickups to work in our guitars, then you gotta adapt to our connection plan."
But as long as these things are held in with screws and nuts, they can be removed for a more traditional setup.

I also don't believe pickup makers would pay a license fee for using a patented system, even if it was only 1 cent per pickup. They'd either try to buy the rights to it or devise their own take on it, all in an effort to make it brand-specific, and that only hurts the customers by limiting their choices.


And yes, the discussion would logically have to turn to soldering to something. These connections would have to be established, unless it was an entire production line of compatible parts. Pots pre-made with quick-connect tabs instead of solder pads, switches with quick-connect tabs instead of traditional ones. All of it would have to be factory-made to be completely compatible.

As for extensions, as long as the ends of the main cable pass through the channel, you would be able to attach an extension. They may not reach the controls, but as long as they make it to the cavity, you can attach them.

However I see your point about narrow channels. I've had a few guitars like that as well, and wondered what pickup they intended this for.

But if the connectors themselves were Liberator-style screw terminals, and you could feed the individual conductors through one at a time (in light of scoring a long drill bit and fixing the primary manufacturing/design flaw of the instrument), and attach the wires to the connector, you're good to go.

For those who point out that bent metal contacts wear and loosen over time, the system could be entirely screw-terminal-based, even the male and female connectors.

 

[harmonix1234]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I wonder why they don't try harder to save you all your money...

Hahaha yeah, good point

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

But if you had the ability to change the pickup itself in only a few seconds

You can't change a PU 'in a few seconds', even with universal connectors. You've got to loosen strings, dismount the PU, put the new one in and reattach it, and then tune up. Some PU's are attached under a large pickguard (like bat wing SG's) and that requires removing the pickguard, bridge and stop bar. That's a project I never look forward to. Don't Strat PU's mount the same way under the pick guard? You guys sound like you can do this between songs on stage. Maybe during a 20 minute break (like it's easy working with little parts and screws on a dark stage packed with everyone's gear), but if you want all those sounds you really should take 2 guitars. The thought of taking a guitar apart at a gig would be a nightmare.

As has been said, the quickest part of replacing PU's is the solder work. The 'time saving' argument of quick connectors doesn't fly.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

You can't change a PU 'in a few seconds', even with universal connectors. You've got to loosen strings, dismount the PU, put the new one in and reattach it, and then tune up. Some PU's are attached under a large pickguard (like bat wing SG's) and that requires removing the pickguard, bridge and stop bar. That's a project I never look forward to. Don't Strat PU's mount the same way under the pick guard? You guys sound like you can do this between songs on stage. Maybe during a 20 minute break (like it's easy working with little parts and screws on a dark stage packed with everyone's gear), but if you want all those sounds you really should take 2 guitars. The thought of taking a guitar apart at a gig would be a nightmare.

As has been said, the quickest part of replacing PU's is the solder work. The 'time saving' argument of quick connectors doesn't fly.

You obviously didn't read my post...


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