Easy pickup changing solution

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

*snark on* Nobody buys things from stores anymore, we have the internet grandpa. *snark off*

Internet grampa just moves the stocking problem from a brick and mortar store to a warehouse, doesn't solve it.

You also would have a hard time buying 4 conductor wire from music stores, as they don't carry that either. Moot point.

Indeed, so imagine if you have 4 or 5 different lead lengths to carry instead of just braid vs. 4-conductor.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

At the end of the day, I just don't get what is so difficult about soldering. It sounds like complaining that restaurants don't have people there just to lift the fork to your mouth.

And if it's a question of wanting to do a lot of quick tests of pickups one after the other, there's always the alligator clip method.

 

[dominus]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Indeed, so imagine if you have 4 or 5 different lead lengths to carry instead of just braid vs. 4-conductor.

As I said, stores that sell pickups don't even carry lead wire for standard pickups, so that's a poor argument. The fact that banjomikez stocks all the EMG cables shows that it's not that difficult to stock parts. The irony is that he doesn't stock the braid or 4 conductor wire in any length.

At the end of the day, I just don't get what is so difficult about soldering. It sounds like complaining that restaurants don't have people there just to lift the fork to your mouth.

And if it's a question of wanting to do a lot of quick tests of pickups one after the other, there's always the alligator clip method.

*I've* already mentioned that I have a problem with depth perception so soldering is a little difficult for me. Most people don't like the idea of sticking a hot iron inside their guitar that has the capability of damaging the finish if they slip, not to mention the fumes melting solder gives off.

There's been quite a few advances in technology over the last 50 years, and the one part of a guitar that would benefit from tech advancements is the electronics.

 

[dukebox]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I second that soldering is a high barrier. Everyone has a screw driver. A lot of guys probably open their guitar up on a whim while changing the strings, see the solder, and turn right back around. I bet Liberator style pots and switches would be a hit. Legos for guitarists.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I bet Liberator style pots and switches would be a hit. Legos for guitarists.

You do know that you still have to solder a liberator in place right? Once its in place you can swap pups with just a screw driver but the initial install requires some soldering.

Sorry I dont buy the high barrier tripe either. Soldering is a simple skill that requires a modest outlay in cost. Even if a modular system is created it wont get much traction. At 50 bucks or more per pop most guys are just going to find the pickups they like and forget it. Even if they require no tools but you still have to loosen the strings people wouldnt swap pickups that often. Between the cost and the fact that it isnt hot swappable people will still fall back on their favorites.All this talk of connectors and wires is moot it will never be simple enough

Not until someone comes up with pickup "modeling" where you can change pickups on the fly at the flick of a switch will the idea really take off.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

As I said, stores that sell pickups don't even carry lead wire for standard pickups, so that's a poor argument. The fact that banjomikez stocks all the EMG cables shows that it's not that difficult to stock parts. The irony is that he doesn't stock the braid or 4 conductor wire in any length.

It's not a poor argument because you miss the point. You stock anything you want, that's not difficult at all. The question is whether it will sell as consistently as something that's more universal. The chances of you over-ordering and getting stuck with stuff on the shelf that doesn't move increases as you increase these options. Sure, you can send it back to the winder but again you just move the problem from the store to the winder instead of solving it.

You will probably now make the argument that having a lot of different pickup models creates the same problem. True as far as it goes, but model variety actually brings something extra to the table for both customer (more choices) and winder (more sales) that outweigh such problems. Where we disagree is that I don't think quick-connect outweighs the problems it creates.

*I've* already mentioned that I have a problem with depth perception so soldering is a little difficult for me.

Sorry you have that problem but most don't. There are probably more blind guitar players than those with depth perception problems so what do you do to cater to blind players when they want to change pickups? But we're not talking about providing special concessions for people with various disabilities, this is about whether the pickup and guitar industry should make a fundamental change in the installation process for the world and his brother.

Most people don't like the idea of sticking a hot iron inside their guitar that has the capability of damaging the finish if they slip, not to mention the fumes melting solder gives off.

A couple of fair points but a fan and some cloth or cardboard ringing the pu cavity solves these problems.

There's been quite a few advances in technology over the last 50 years, and the one part of a guitar that would benefit from tech advancements is the electronics.

Maybe, if they can work out the bugs, but to me it's still a solution in search of a problem.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I could go both ways. Gibson tried to do a quick connect system in their guitars and everyone hated it because it meant that they would have to completely rewire their guitars to put in new pups.

That being said, it was a pretty simple solution if you were willing to stick with Gibson pickups.

Pedal companies have (mostly) agreed on a standard for power solutions on their products, with the Boss style adapters being most common. A few companies don't use those, but do usually provide the appropriate adapters for their connections. I guess I don't see why Gibson couldn't make the quick connect system standard on all their guitars, and pickup companies complying with that.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I could go both ways

Your girlfriend know that?

I guess I don't see why Gibson couldn't make the quick connect system standard on all their guitars, and pickup companies complying with that.

Because in the grand scheme of things Gibson is fraction of the guitar market. I think people forget that even in the realm of guitars how few people swap pups. For every guitarist that I know that has swapped pups I know at least 4 that play whatever stock pickups the guitars have.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

You obviously didn't read my post...

Actually I did. The cassette-style PU is pure fantasy. How does it work for all the configurations: PU rings, no PU rings, mounted under big pickguards, direct mount, etc? And you think all the major guitar makers and PU makers are going to agree on a universal cassette PU mount and redesign all their PU's and guitars to fit it? And this is expected from those same companies who can't even agree on a common wire color coding. Plus you're saying HB's and single coils should be swapped in and out of the same mount? That's going to make for some ugly-looking guitars. There's thinking 'outside the box' and there's things are out of touch with reality.

It's kind of sobering that grown men expect the musical world to spend millions of dollars redesigning their products for them because they don't feel like spending a few minutes with a soldering iron.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Because in the grand scheme of things Gibson is fraction of the guitar market. I think people forget that even in the realm of guitars how few people swap pups. For every guitarist that I know that has swapped pups I know at least 4 that play whatever stock pickups the guitars have.

A salient point. Hanging out in places like this (or being a custom winder like me), it's easy to get the impression that we're the whole guitar playing universe. While the percentage of players tinkering under the hood is certainly much higher than 40-50 years ago, we're still a very small minority. I admit it's a bit speculative but the only thing I'd change about the above is we're probably more like 1 in 10 rather than 1 in 5.

Even among those who get pickups swapped out, a sizable number have a tech do it for them because they don't know how. This is the case in about 1 in 10 of my own customers, probably more.

 

[dukebox]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

One reason I might not opt for cartridge style pickups is that I'd worry about what it would do to the tone of the guitar having so much solid wood replaced with the mechanical features that would be required to allow a pickup to slide in or slide out in under a few seconds.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Your girlfriend know that?

Walked right into that one.

In the end it doesn't really bother me about this, I was just making a point. Yeah most players won't change pickups, and some will. I guess it's a solution that doesn't have a huge problem behind it.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Walked right into that one.

In the end it doesn't really bother me about this, I was just making a point. Yeah most players won't change pickups, and some will. I guess it's a solution that doesn't have a huge problem behind it.

I think thats the thing... solution looking for a problem

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

I think thats the thing... solution looking for a problem

As some have pointed out, it's more realistic for you to just rig it up for quick connect yourself rather than wait for someone else to build a popular system like it.

But seeing as how it doesn't really bother me, I guess I'll play devil's advocate and ask "Why?"

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

*I've* already mentioned that I have a problem with depth perception so soldering is a little difficult for me. Most people don't like the idea of sticking a hot iron inside their guitar that has the capability of damaging the finish if they slip, not to mention the fumes melting solder gives off.

There's been quite a few advances in technology over the last 50 years, and the one part of a guitar that would benefit from tech advancements is the electronics.

I have depth perception issues as well. I use a quick pickup change system that I install on new pickups. Coincidence? I think not. Personally I think the use of simple connectors is rather easy and I install them on my guitars outside of the guitar.

My system is so very basic it bypasses most of the logistical arguments. I use pins, kind of like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/271209550782?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT , male and female, heat shrink wrap it, so I have a hot and a ground connection, or four conductor wiring. The plus side is I don't damage finishes, I can perform near infinite pickup swaps with only heating the pot once, and it takes about 5 minutes to change a pickup. And it is roughly the same width as the wire. There aren't really technical hurdles here. This is something I can cook up with $10 worth of parts and solve the technical issues. It isn't complicated at all to do it and do it right.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Is this fast enough? I do use myself a liberator and a MIM Strat with a foyld rose. I cannot change pickups as fast as they do but you solder once the liberator then it is very easy for me to swap pickups. If there is some other easier method out there I would be glad to look at some demo.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

As some have pointed out, it's more realistic for you to just rig it up for quick connect yourself rather than wait for someone else to build a popular system like it.

Right. Don't hold your breath waiting for the world's big PU and guitar makers to redesign their products, I don't think they can justify the time or cost, or that they see it as any kind of priority in the first place. There's millions of guitars and PU's currently out there that don't have connectors (of any kind), quick-change PU mounts, or wire channels that'll even accomodate connectors. That's a lot of 'water under the dam'. If PU's with universal connectors aren't going to match up with 99.9% of the guitars existing today, then how can you expect PU companies to make the investment in new connectors? That's what the current market is: guitars without matching connectors and many with narrow wire channels. How are they going to sell PU's with universal connectors to those people? They'd just cut them off and solder the wires on. They're not going to want to pay extra for conenctors on PU's when their guitars don't have matching ones, and the PU makers aren't going to want to absorb the cost of connectors that people just cut off anyways.

It's nice to be a dreamer, but can you really expect others to make the financial investment in worldwide product redesigns amongst guitar and PU makers, when those redesigns aren't applicable to millions guitars existing today? How do they recoup their money?

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Blueman, a connector system does not need to be substantially bigger than the current wire. This is merely a strawman. You can make a system that fits in narrow channels. I did with a random idea and a few minutes walking around an electronics store. The R &D? $10 to buy supplies. I use a connector system, and the truth is, the opposition to a quick connect is really presenting nothing that presents a substantive issue, except tradition.

There is not a good reason to avoid innovation here.

 

[dukebox]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

Here's a potentiometer with "screw terminals". If they made other selectors and potentiometers with similar attachment points, a guitarist could try lots of things out with household tools.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Easy pickup changing solution

A channel that can't pass a 4-conductor cable is a basic design flaw.

Regarding the quick-change system, there are a few incorrect assumptions being made in this thread by people who are responding negatively:

1. The pickup will be wired to a harmonica-style connector. It's been stated, and shown in at least one photograph posted here, that one can use single-wire connectors, and that these are not wider than the sleeve of the pickup leads. The braided cables I've seen are the same diameter as Duncan's 4-conductor cables. If one can pass through a wire channel, the other can.
The OP's photoshopped example clearly shows there are no wires coming from the pickup at all. This indicates the cavity contains the receiving connector pads, and those are wired to a jumper panel mounted in the control cavity. A common-sense option here would be that the control cavity terminal would have screw-locking or spring-loaded wire connections for the wires that connect the pickup cavity receiver pads. No one suggested passing a completely pre-wired PC-style 1" wide pin block through a 1/8" diameter wire channel.

2. Extra/excess wood would have to be removed from the guitar ala the Armstrong or the Gibson pick-a-pickup dealer-exclusive model. This is historically a bad idea, which is why Gibson did not make this dealer-exclusive model a full-on production model, and why no one else did, either.

3. This quick-change system should be the new standard starting tomorrow and everyone will have to conform to it exclusively. Obviously this isn't going to happen. Gibson's system exclusive format was already pointed out, and Gibson was not obligated to retrofit non-Gibson pickups for their guitars, nor was SD obligated to create a line of pickups that conformed to this system. Gibson could have made their system so that the pickup connectors were screw-locked or spring-loaded so that pickup changes were as simple as stripping wires, but since they operate under the mistaken impression that everyone who uses their guitars should use their pickups, they were obviously not over themselves.

4. If you can't solder like a champ, you're a chump. High blood pressure and vision problems are just two known issues that make it difficult to solder. Try working with a Triple Shot with both high blood pressure and vision problems, in your lap.

5. The whole "solution for a non-problem". This is saying "don't think progressively, be a sheep and accept what is, because it's simply not possible for you to have a great idea that's ahead of its time". If you wait for a problem before devising a solution for it, I feel for you. Those who can look ahead and come up with progressive ideas should not be belittled by those who cannot.