Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

[mantis]

Whats up everyone?
I'm at yet another crossroad with my rig. I've had pedals , then Processor , then Pedals , then processor , and now I'm considering going back to pedals due to amp suck out.
I will say this about Processors , you can set up all your effects exactly the way you want them and control them with one pedal push , meaning switch amp channels , turn on and off any effect you want , have completely different sounds from the same effects etc. it's really endless what you can setup and really go deep into writing with that you hear in your head. The cost is less quality sound. I haven't been able to avoid this but I have been told by other people online that this isn't an issue with there rigs.
With pedals , you don't get any suck out of your tone. At least the amount and quality of pedals , wire etc I use. I didn't notice any difference in my sound when I had my pedals wired in and all where off , it sounded like they where not there. Problem with this setup is in order to turn on and off each pedal and switch your amps channels , you have to press multible pedals and amp switcher to get this job done. In my head I wrote this song that required Reverb , Chorus and Delay on a clean channel for a part of the song , then switch tot he drive channel and only have delay on. This is very possible with a processor but not at all with pedals.

So can no tone suck out be really possible or do I have to come up with another way to write. Maybe just give up my dream of having my cake and eat it to.

 

[Securb]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

This crapstorm again? Have at it boys.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

All my effects are implemented in individual pedals with surface-mount devices on a bacon substrate. The FIR filters are coded by chickens, goats, and cows.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

stand alone pedals... I like to control it all with my feet when needed and I haven ever liked a fuzz made by a processor and fuzz is my bag baby yeah

 

[briggleman]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

Whats up everyone?
I'm at yet another crossroad with my rig. ............................................................................................................ Maybe just give up my dream of having my cake and eat it to.

Okay, you basically said that you love individual pedal's tone, but find the convenience of multi-effects modelers to your liking. So, easy fix............OCTA-SWITCH. You are done.

http://www.carlmartin.com/product octaswitch.htm

Lets you use your individual pedals in any combination you like. Now, there are others out there that do the same thing. A little research and you are on your way to nirvana!!!!!!

Brad

 

[briggleman]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

This crapstorm again? Have at it boys.

What???????? you think we would stoop that low as to tell others what they should like or dislike, what is sh#t and what is the cats meow! Wow, what kind of forum do you think this is.......THE GEAR PAGE!

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

Okay, you basically said that you love individual pedal's tone, but find the convenience of multi-effects modelers to your liking. So, easy fix............OCTA-SWITCH. You are done.

http://www.carlmartin.com/product octaswitch.htm

Lets you use your individual pedals in any combination you like. Now, there are others out there that do the same thing. A little research and you are on your way to nirvana!!!!!!

Brad

That thing looks pretty awesome, but… tape? I'd like to see a little flip-open cover for the DIP switches.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

"amp suck out" ????

I've been a fan of pedals and the Boss GT-XXX series of processors. I'm back in a band and just snagged me a GT-100. I'm not using any other pedals for the band at the moment but you never know what the future will bring. I find both useful but I'm trying to simplify things as I'm getting older.

 

[mantis]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

Okay, you basically said that you love individual pedal's tone, but find the convenience of multi-effects modelers to your liking. So, easy fix............OCTA-SWITCH. You are done.

http://www.carlmartin.com/product octaswitch.htm

Lets you use your individual pedals in any combination you like. Now, there are others out there that do the same thing. A little research and you are on your way to nirvana!!!!!!

Brad

Now thats what I'm talking about , thank you very much.

 

[mantis]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

"amp suck out" ????

I've been a fan of pedals and the Boss GT-XXX series of processors. I'm back in a band and just snagged me a GT-100. I'm not using any other pedals for the band at the moment but you never know what the future will bring. I find both useful but I'm trying to simplify things as I'm getting older.

Thats exactly where I'm at. I've owned both the Gt-8 and currently have the GT-10. Debating on even bothering going with the Gt-100 but I have heard so many good things about it. I tried one out but I was in Guitar center and played on gear not my own. So I have no idea if it's better then the Gt-10 as everyone claims it to be.
I've never had ANY issues with tone and pedals ever. Just pedal dancing I hate. I do to many things with changing effects to pedal dance.
Example:
Clean tone clean channel with reverb , Delay and Chorus. This is the beginning of the song , then it switches to the drive channel , turn off the Reverb and chorus but leave the delay on. So count all those pedal presses and miss a few beats you can. Then going back and forth between these sound sucks. With the GT-10 it's heaven as I can program a patch to do exactly what I want then another for the drive and so on. never even an issue , the GT-10 does way more then I would ever do. But at the cost of less quality sound.
I use the 4CM and from talking to the guys over at the GT forums , they think it's a matter of levels etc. they claim you can get 98% of your amps tone , I don't get that close. Mine sounds different and fuzzy in the 4CM

 

[Securb]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

What???????? you think we would stoop that low as to tell others what they should like or dislike, what is sh#t and what is the cats meow! Wow, what kind of forum do you think this is.......THE GEAR PAGE!

OK in that case I like pedals a combination of digital modelers and analog. My board is about 50/50 right down the middle.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

My official deep $h!t wisdom answer; Whatever sounds good and works for the situation. Meditate upon that and the answer will come to you...and there is not just one answer. There are many signal paths that lead to tonal enlightenment.

Now practically speaking - a little context would be helpful. Are we talking live or memorex?

Live: I REALLY find it hard to beat the convenience of program and go. Especially if you have lots of sound changes, or the changes are large when they happen, or even if they just need to be fast. We are talking about through a PA and crowd noise and house acoustics. Whatever for tone suck. The sound sucks period!

Memorex: For recording, which I don't do, I'd say just learn to multi-track it.

Here are the real issues IMO:
1. Tone suck can happen with ANYTHING; Processor, Pedals, Cords, Amps, Pickups, Your technique....
2. Judicious setting of knobs should be able to generate a good tone period
3. The audience likely doesn't care either way

Here is an easy way to do this with pedals: Use a pedal loop for the clean and another loop for the dirty. Use an eq pedal to adjust within a loop. Lot's of hassle and lots of cost. And maybe the Loop pedal is a tone suck!

I'm guessing you are worried about live. I'm guessing you are talking about many varied sounds. Get a BBE Sonic Stomp and put it in the amp loop or after the processor. Done.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

OK in that case I like pedals a combination of digital modelers and analog. My board is about 50/50 right down the middle.

And then there is this....

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

I think it's about cost basically.

You can spend an arseload of money on individual pedals getting the right ones for the job while simultaneously pleasing your sonic tastebuds.

or you can get an all in one or multi-effects unit that utilizes modeling technology and save a lot of money.

On my pedalboard, I have in street value:

1). Badgerplex AC - $100
2). ISP Decimator - $75
3). BOSS DM-3 x2 - $300
4). Weehbo JMP Drive - $200
5). BOSS MIJ CS-3 - $75

That's $750 and the only effect I've got is analog delay and more analog delay... I could easily make it go to $1000 adding in a vintage wah and vintage mod of some sort (I have them, but they're just not on my pedalboard right now)

and I would still not have access to a BUNCH of effects.

One stupid BOSS GT or Line 6 POD is gonna have basically everything that you could possibly need and then some in the $500 price range.

Combining pedals and modelers can get pretty expensive too... do whatever you can within your budget but a bunch of cheap pedals is a really unsatisfying way to go IMHO.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

For live playing, I have been using a Line6 M9. True bypass when it is off and about 100 modeled pedals. Very happy with the sound. My beef with using lots of pedals isn't the pedals themselves, but the patch cords. When something goes wrong- and it always does at the gig- and you get no sound, it can be one of, lets say 5 patch cords. I ain't got time to figure out which one. Playing the vintage or boutique pedal game is for rock stars or debates on TGP, and I ain't got time or money for that either.

 

[mantis]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

My official deep $h!t wisdom answer; Whatever sounds good and works for the situation. Meditate upon that and the answer will come to you...and there is not just one answer. There are many signal paths that lead to tonal enlightenment.

Now practically speaking - a little context would be helpful. Are we talking live or memorex?

Live: I REALLY find it hard to beat the convenience of program and go. Especially if you have lots of sound changes, or the changes are large when they happen, or even if they just need to be fast. We are talking about through a PA and crowd noise and house acoustics. Whatever for tone suck. The sound sucks period!

Memorex: For recording, which I don't do, I'd say just learn to multi-track it.

Here are the real issues IMO:
1. Tone suck can happen with ANYTHING; Processor, Pedals, Cords, Amps, Pickups, Your technique....
2. Judicious setting of knobs should be able to generate a good tone period
3. The audience likely doesn't care either way

Here is an easy way to do this with pedals: Use a pedal loop for the clean and another loop for the dirty. Use an eq pedal to adjust within a loop. Lot's of hassle and lots of cost. And maybe the Loop pedal is a tone suck!

I'm guessing you are worried about live. I'm guessing you are talking about many varied sounds. Get a BBE Sonic Stomp and put it in the amp loop or after the processor. Done.

1) I agree with Modelers , haven't experienced this with Pedals as I don't use many and is probably why I haven't noticed this.
2) I fully agree with you as I have got some good sounds even with the modelers .
3) The Audience could care less but I care about my tone. It's just about everything to me.
I'm not worried about Live , I'm not even in a band right now. I gave that up years ago. I just play for myself and play with friends here and there.

I got a Sonic Stomp , had the Maximizer years ago . It's good some of the time depending on the sound I'm after.

 

[mantis]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

I think it's about cost basically.

You can spend an arseload of money on individual pedals getting the right ones for the job while simultaneously pleasing your sonic tastebuds.

or you can get an all in one or multi-effects unit that utilizes modeling technology and save a lot of money.

On my pedalboard, I have in street value:

1). Badgerplex AC - $100
2). ISP Decimator - $75
3). BOSS DM-3 x2 - $300
4). Weehbo JMP Drive - $200
5). BOSS MIJ CS-3 - $75

That's $750 and the only effect I've got is analog delay and more analog delay... I could easily make it go to $1000 adding in a vintage wah and vintage mod of some sort (I have them, but they're just not on my pedalboard right now)

and I would still not have access to a BUNCH of effects.

One stupid BOSS GT or Line 6 POD is gonna have basically everything that you could possibly need and then some in the $500 price range.

Combining pedals and modelers can get pretty expensive too... do whatever you can within your budget but a bunch of cheap pedals is a really unsatisfying way to go IMHO.

Cost is always a factor when yo have a budget. I tend to only buy high quality gear. I never found a lower end model that I really liked. Seems to be hard to find Gems in Pro gear , seems like you get exactly what you pay for.
For what the GT series effects processors cost , I'd be willing to spend more IF they made one that was just EFFECTS and no Modeling. I honestly have no need for it other then to play around. Really I look at it this way , I spent years finding the right amp that suited my playing style and tonal needs. I want to add the effects I enjoy and write with.
The GT series effects are damn good , I have always enjoyed Boss effects over just about everything made.

 

[mantis]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

For live playing, I have been using a Line6 M9. True bypass when it is off and about 100 modeled pedals. Very happy with the sound. My beef with using lots of pedals isn't the pedals themselves, but the patch cords. When something goes wrong- and it always does at the gig- and you get no sound, it can be one of, lets say 5 patch cords. I ain't got time to figure out which one. Playing the vintage or boutique pedal game is for rock stars or debates on TGP, and I ain't got time or money for that either.

I've tried and tried with Line 6. I think their sound quality to me sounds fake or exactly what it is , modeled after. I saw the M13 and it looks awesome. But I know I'll probably just end up selling or returning it as I have yet to find one single effect I like from Line 6. I have purchased many in the past as I read all the rave with their stuff. It's just not for me but the design of that M13 is. I wish Boss would make something like that.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

I've the gt10 too, along with a wah, analog delay, tuner & chorus/flange stompboxes. I was able to get about ~90% of my amps tone when using the gt10 in 4CM but it took like a week for me to get the levels right & start using the low input of the amp to get the amount of hiss down to acceptable levels. The input/output buffers on it are fantastic I think, the send/return on it may or may not play along with certain amps.

Here is how I got mine to work:
I started with -10dB output level from the global system settings instead of the +4dB. From there it depends upon where you want the output level knob on the gt10 to be, meaning either fully clockwise or somewhere inbetween. After that playing with the Send/Return levels, starting with the Send Level to get unity gain for the guitar & then the Return Level to get unity gain for the amp did the trick for me. Once that is done, its important to keep the Mid Frequency value in the global system settings the same as that of the Patch/Master setting,(the patch EQ under the Master menu also allows you to select a mid freq for the patch). The default value is 800Hz for both, I had to change it to somewhere lower for my amp, you may need to do the opposite. That was about it, using good quality cables helps a lot especially for the ones that are going into the amp's fx loop. I have the Planet Waves American stage cables, these are low capacitance & are great for long runs like 4CM usage, not uber expensive either.
[EDIT: I forgot to mention something important, the Lines/Phones output select is the key to get the gt10 to work with an amp, make sure it's set to this mode & disable the preamp block entirely as in the led on the preamp button must not light up, and the preamp mode in this disabled preamp block needs to be set to single mono mode(not dual mono or L/R). Changing it to Dual mode even when disabled cause the sound to change due to the parallel chain created because of it.]

Well, you could just run it straight between the amp & guitar or in the amp's loop instead of 4CM to determine the amount of tone suckage present there, if its too much for you then perhaps its time to start collecting individual pedals and a switcher. Anyways, i did get something like this to keep the cable mess(I have 4 cables going to the amp, one of them for the amp control) when using the gt10.
View attachment 45723

 

[uOpt]

Re: Effects Modeling Processor or Pedals , what do you use and why?

The big problems I have with multieffects are:

• lack of programmable effect loops. I want several loops and it should be programmable in on/off, input to loop gain and mix when coming back.
• lack of options in re-ordering the built-in-effects.
• ... and not to mention the one effects loop that you often have you can't pick where it inserts either.

You can, however, buy a programmable router, so you can semi-program foot pedals and switch between different paths with one step. Of course the number of pedals you might need for many sounds quickly explodes.