Emg+duncan

[suaveymcsuave]

In my first ever post I mentioned I was a former EMG user interested in changing over to Duncans. The problem is there are too many Duncans to choose from for the bridge position, I'm confident in my neck choices so I don't need help there. So, the question on the table is has anyone mixed an EMG with a passive and if so how did it work out for you? I went to EMG's site and they said to order a little device so the passive will match the active. Did you do this or did you just use seperate pots? What were the results? I have an Epiphone LP Goth.

 

[Akrin]

Re: Emg+duncan

I'd think that if you didn't use the EMG device (PA-2 I think it is) that the EMG would waaay overpower the passive pickup.

 

[neosadist]

Re: Emg+duncan

In my first ever post I mentioned I was a former EMG user interested in changing over to Duncans. The problem is there are too many Duncans to choose from for the bridge position, I'm confident in my neck choices so I don't need help there. So, the question on the table is has anyone mixed an EMG with a passive and if so how did it work out for you? I went to EMG's site and they said to order a little device so the passive will match the active. Did you do this or did you just use seperate pots? What were the results? I have an Epiphone LP Goth.

Or you could use a passive EMG pickup! (blasphemy!)

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Emg+duncan

I run EMG bridges with passive necks without the little EMG device they try to sell you - you don't need it. In fact, I'm about to set my Les Paul R7 up with an EMG 81 bridge and a Dimarzio Virtual PAF neck. Just run each pickup to its own separate control pots (500k for passive and 25k for the EMG) and then have them meet at the stereo imput jack. There's some slight volume drop when switching, because the 81 is so much hotter I figure that's normal. But it works fine to me.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Emg+duncan

I run EMG bridges with passive necks without the little EMG device they try to sell you - you don't need it. In fact, I'm about to set my Les Paul R7 up with an EMG 81 bridge and a Dimarzio Virtual PAF neck. Just run each pickup to its own separate control pots (500k for passive and 25k for the EMG) and then have them meet at the stereo imput jack. There's some slight volume drop when switching, because the 81 is so much hotter I figure that's normal. But it works fine to me.

I don't recommend this because the 25k pots of the EMGs are effectively partially shorting out the passive pickups. It's not a case of the EMGs being "more powerful" than the passives; they aren't really, it's just that the low impedance output of the EMGs effectively pulls down the output of the High impedance pickups.

The PA-2 is intended to balance the output impedance of the high impedance pickups with those of the EMGs so you get a balanced response from both units (and an improved s/n ratio).

You make it sound as though EMG are just trying to sell a useless gimmick but actually it is a good recommendation.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Emg+duncan

I don't recommend this because the 25k pots of the EMGs are effectively partially shorting out the passive pickups. It's not a case of the EMGs being "more powerful" than the passives; they aren't really, it's just that the low impedance output of the EMGs effectively pulls down the output of the High impedance pickups.

The PA-2 is intended to balance the output impedance of the high impedance pickups with those of the EMGs so you get a balanced response from both units (and an improved s/n ratio).

You make it sound as though EMG are just trying to sell a useless gimmick but actually it is a good recommendation.

Ok well according to EMG's own FAQ section, my way is perfectly fine and the only draw on the passive will be when the middle position is on and using both pickups at once (This kind of setup isn't really intending to use the middle anyway).

Can I mix EMG's with passive pickups?
It is possible to mix EMG's with passive pickups. There are three possible wiring configurations; one is better than the other two.

Use the high impedance (250K-500K) volume and tone controls. The problem is that the high impedance controls act more like a switch to the EMG's. The passive pickups, however, will work fine. If you have a guitar with two pickups and two volume pots, with a three-way switch, there is another alternative. Use the 25K pots for the EMG, and the 250K pots for the passive pickup. This way you can use one or the other with no adverse affects, but with the switch in the middle position the passive pickup will have reduced gain and response.

 

[suaveymcsuave]

Re: Emg+duncan

So it seems like the vote is GET the pa2?

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Emg+duncan

If you want to use the middle position with both pickups running together, then get it. If you're just using one at a time, either bridge or neck, then you don't need it. I don't use it because IMO whyat's the point in mixing somehitng like an 81 with a passive PAF'ish neck like a 59 or something. Your call, I think the part is only like an extra $20-$30.

 

[suaveymcsuave]

Re: Emg+duncan

If you want to use the middle position with both pickups running together, then get it. If you're just using one at a time, either bridge or neck, then you don't need it. I don't use it because IMO whyat's the point in mixing somehitng like an 81 with a passive PAF'ish neck like a 59 or something. Your call, I think the part is only like an extra $20-$30.

Yeah, I'm not much of a middle position guy so I guess I wouldn't need it, besides they say to install it at the end of the chain so if I changed my mind down the road I guess it wouldn't really matter to add it later. Thanks for your input.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Emg+duncan

Ok well according to EMG's own FAQ section, my way is perfectly fine and the only draw on the passive will be when the middle position is on and using both pickups at once (This kind of setup isn't really intending to use the middle anyway).

Well yes that's my point; it will only happen when both pickups are in circuit. as soon as the EMG's output stage is "seen" by that of the high-impedance side of the circuit it drags down the output of that side.

As an ex-EMG support tech I very much doubt if EMG's FAQs say that this is "fine"; it won't do any damage but your way assumes that no-one will be wanting to use both pickps together but sound technical advice must take into account that users may want to do that. Without the PA-2 to balance the outputs your high-impedance neck pickup is going to be almost useless when parallelled with the EMG in the bridge.

PA-2 preamps are not expensive. If you are spending th money on an EMG you may as well go the extra couple of bucks needed to make the set up work properly.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Emg+duncan

As an ex-EMG support tech I very much doubt if EMG's FAQs say that this is "fine";

Dude, I quoted the FAQ above, EMG says it is fine.

Can I mix EMG's with passive pickups?
It is possible to mix EMG's with passive pickups. There are three possible wiring configurations; one is better than the other two.

Use the high impedance (250K-500K) volume and tone controls. The problem is that the high impedance controls act more like a switch to the EMG's. The passive pickups, however, will work fine. If you have a guitar with two pickups and two volume pots, with a three-way switch, there is another alternative. Use the 25K pots for the EMG, and the 250K pots for the passive pickup. This way you can use one or the other with no adverse affects, but with the switch in the middle position the passive pickup will have reduced gain and response.

PA-2 preamps are not expensive. If you are spending th money on an EMG you may as well go the extra couple of bucks needed to make the set up work properly.

This is good advice.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Emg+duncan

No it doesn't, it points out the limitations of doing it, that's not the same thing.

"but with the switch in the middle position the passive pickup will have reduced gain and response."

That the passive pickups on their own, with their own pots, separate from the EMGs will work is not in dispute.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Emg+duncan

No it doesn't, it points out the limitations of doing it, that's not the same thing.

"but with the switch in the middle position the passive pickup will have reduced gain and response."

That the passive pickups on their own, with their own pots, separate from the EMGs will work is not in dispute.

Well, then there is no dispute, I'm just going by what EMG says, and what I have used. I don't have an EMG tech resume and am quite a dumbass when it comes to this stuff (which is why I have a tech do everything for me). But I'm reading the EMG site and it says its fine to do either of the three ways, although they say the PA-2 way is better. I don't understand what the problem is. The guy even said he doesn't care about the middle position, just as I figured because as I mentioned already, who would want to rrun the middle with something like an 81 and a 59?

 

[St-Jimmy]

Re: Emg+duncan

while we are on the topic of EMGs, Duncans, and PA2s... how many people here have used the EMG-PA2 with a JB, Custom or Distortion? I'm planning on trying this out to see if it'll enhance the output of the pickup and make it close to being "active". Will the device really be an improvement and help push the harmonics out more (help ease of pinch harmonics, tapping), or will it have minimal impact?

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Emg+duncan

Well, then there is no dispute, I'm just going by what EMG says, and what I have used. I don't have an EMG tech resume and am quite a dumbass when it comes to this stuff (which is why I have a tech do everything for me). But I'm reading the EMG site and it says its fine to do either of the three ways, although they say the PA-2 way is better. I don't understand what the problem is. The guy even said he doesn't care about the middle position, just as I figured because as I mentioned already, who would want to rrun the middle with something like an 81 and a 59?

Well what's wrong is that someone who might want to mix the two types of pickup and use them in the same way as you could use a pair of pickups of the same type might read your post and believe it was OK to do that with a mixed set; then they would find out that it is not.

To proceed from the assumption that you don't need to consider the broader picture because you yourself don't happen to have a need for a specific function is sloppy.

Your comment that "who would want to run the middle with something like an 81 and a 59?" doesn't hold true; why would someone not want to if both pickups were matched in output. The only reason it doesn't work is because of the impedance mismatch which makes them not work in the middle position...

The next thing you know someone would read your post and assume that it is OK to fit an EMG humbucker in a Strat with two Texas Specials.

Yes, i've seen someone try that, and the tech who did it told him it would be "fine" as well. :laugh2:

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Emg+duncan

while we are on the topic of EMGs, Duncans, and PA2s... how many people here have used the EMG-PA2 with a JB, Custom or Distortion? I'm planning on trying this out to see if it'll enhance the output of the pickup and make it close to being "active". Will the device really be an improvement and help push the harmonics out more (help ease of pinch harmonics, tapping), or will it have minimal impact?

It's only function is to match the output impedance of passive pickups to those of actives.

The issues you refer to regarding the tone are subjective; you'd just have to try it and see.

Low impedance output has certain advantages in terms of noise suppression and tone. The low impedance across the input of the amp means better damping of ambient hum and improved s/n ratio, and low impedance outputs are less prone to treble loss over long cable lengths.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Emg+duncan

Don't bitch at me, it is OK according to EMG and if you think it's bad advice then I suggest you go tell EMG to change their FAQ. I won't return to this thread, so you can have the last word if you need.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Emg+duncan

I'm not bitching at you I'm just giving the best technical advice I can.

I repeat, EMG's FAQs don't say it's fine to mix them, that is just your faulty interpretation. The FAQs say the passives will work fine as long as they are on a separate circuit from the actives, but they point out the problems that occur if you mix the two. That is exactly the same thing i've been saying.

My point is that just because you don't want to use the middle position of the 3-way switch doesn't mean that everybody else won't want to use it.

You are the one who's turning this into a flame war about nothing, not me, I'm just trying to ensure the people who read these threads don't get misled.