Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Just got back from Ultrasound 10 minutes ago; played a Bogner Shiva tonight ... Without the Full-Drive 2 in front of it, I would've ben SUNK .. I had the thing totally dimed out, and it still wasn't giving me what I needed. Next week we're in the Ultraroom from 9-11, so I'll be able to direct compare the Diezel. I turned the Cornford on, but once I saw that it only has 2 power tubes, I knew it wouldn't be loud enough.

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

thanks for the review...what sucks is my damn drummer works so much that i can't get into ultrasound to try the amps out until...get this...may 10th...DOH...oh well, i guess i can wait...plus my birthday is May 24th and i graduate in early May so extra cash will be nice to have on top of what i have saved now for an amp...so waiting 'til late MAy me be a good idea. i also want to try a VHT since i was told i may like them...who knows...too many choices. i just e-mailed trace at voodoo amps about a 4x12 cab for my current peavey ultra plus head and that got me thinking about sending him my ultra plus and having him mod that...since i am honestly happy with my ultra plus now, it can only get better when his hands touch it. i'm torn in so many ways my head is spinning. i also had a friend tell me of a local selling and Engl so i'm waiting to find out more about that....tooo many damn choices lol. oh and if the cornford is only a 50w then that wont work for me either since my drummer is an animal to keep up with and i push my 120w ultra plus pretty good when playing with him and the rest of the band.

-Mike

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

The VHT Pitbull 50 won't work, either.
The other guitarist in my band was playing the Pitbull 50 last night, and although the tone was amazing, he was just too low ... he switched to a 100W JCM800 and it was much better ...

(Good thing we really only need 18-30W, tho, right?!! )

 

[Bludave]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

yeah i saw that on their site as well as a bogner dealer so that's a plus...i guess this all has to wait til i go to ultra an play through everything i can get my hands on lol.

-Mike

Hey Mike, When you decide to go... let me know, I would love to go too. And as you know I would buy the Bogner You and I are very differnt players, but I think it would give you what you want. The Uberschell is a bit much fro me.... I still think the Shiva would be all I need (and More) :laugh2:

 

[Soiledwork]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

It depends on what you're after tone/style wise. I have A-b'd the Powerball/Savage/Herbert. Best amp I've ever played is the Herbert. I play metal and own a Powerball. It's a sick sick amp for the money. The Savage 120 is wicked too.......ala a suped up JCM 800 kind of deal. I love those too but I liked the Powerball a tad better. The Savage doesn't have as much bottom or saturation as the PB but is still a killer amp. I would choose either over a Uberschall......

 

[Neeradj]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Hej man
get the ENGL RITCHIE BLACKMORE.
it´s more metal and more mids and bone crushing distortion than the AIRY sound of the others.

Please JP, don't comment on heads you haven't compared, because that is totally not true :smack: . No offense, but I just don't like comments that might misinform people, sorry.

XSSIVE, you'll get the most brutal distortion out of the Powerball and the Special Edition (pricey!!!). They both have incredible clean channels, although the SE's more versatile. They're both about equally brutal, although the SE is more versatile, you won't get the nice Marshall JCM800 crunch out of the SE easilly, while the Powerball can. I own a Powerball and if I had to choose it'd be the SE for sure, although it's twice the price and I'm pretty much broke :newangel:

 

[Neeradj]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

I know that the Powerball and Savage use different power tubes, but I think they are both 120W heads and both have 4 channels, I think.

I know that the Powerball is used by more power metal bands, but I've never directly compared the two, so I can't tell you why that is ...

Correct, the Savage 120 uses 6550 powertubes, and the Powerball uses 6l6GC powertubes. Both indeed have four channels, but the Powerball does have 100W instead of 120 the Savage has.

 

[Neeradj]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Can anyone give me a rundown on the sound differences b/t the Engl Savage and Engl Powerball? i tend to run for the powerball since it's 6l6 powered and all the amps i seem to like are 6l6 amps for some reason...but the Savage sounds sweet also fom what i have heard. i've listened to tons of clips of both and depending on settings they can sound quite similar in clips (to my ears) or fairly different (both sound great)!! is that the case live and in person (that they are fairly similar) or are they drastically different sounds...sometimes you just can't tell from a clip. basically any info about the two and how they relate to eachother in terms of gain, treble, mid. and bass would be great...such as which seems to have a more usable high gain and which has more low end etc etc along those lines. the amp will be used 90%+ for high gain metal and punk.

info on any of the above would be great from owners of the amps or people who have tried them.

thanks!!!

-Mike

They are quite different amps, the Powerball is often stamped the Metalhead (litterally) of the ENGL family, while this is partially true it's so much more. If I'd have to express the difference between the two in words, the Savage would have to be "tighter" and "smoother" and the Powerball would be "ballsier", more "agressive" and "dirtier".

Basically the Savage 120 is more versatile, but not all channels are usable for some people, you can get a better clean much easier, while you have to toy with the knobs to find that nice clean with the Powerball. The Powerball has a certain brutallity you won't find in the Savage. Both have massive low end and gain on tap, although the Powerball has more. Both also have tons of usable gain, but can get sterile when not used correctly :smack: . I personally have trouble getting a nice singing smooth voicing (Vai-like) out of the Powerball which is actually my only complaint. The Savage 120 can get that tone, but can never get as agressive as the PB, I always miss that growl with that amp. Another cool thing about ENGLs is that you can use them in your living room at reasonable volumes without sounding bad.

If you're going for a Powerball, I highly recommend a greenback loaded cab or the ENGL 412 Standard (not the Vintage, that's loaded with V30s!), they will just present a fuller sound to my ears. The Savage works with most cabs, thus both Vintage and Standard.

I know a guy that has both amps, he's a trash metal player, and likes the Powerball better, but finds other usable tones in the Savage120.

If you have any other questions, please post them

 

[RGN]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Wow TO. I don't see how 50 watt tube heads aren't loud enough for any application. Maybe that is a two guitar band thing? I played PLENTY of gigs using a Marshall DSL50 and never had any problems whatsoever. Again, maybe if I was playing with another guitar player with a cranked 100 watt Dual Rectifier it would be an issue. A 100 watt head is going to get you 3 more db than a 50 watt head. During band practice I'd run my 50DSL at 5 or 6 volume and my 100DSL at 4 volume. I'd be mic'd at gigs so it didn't matter.

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Neeradj: thanks a ton for all the good info...well by what you say the powerball is much more "me" i like a thick thick sound that shakes your chest during a high gain palm muted power chord. as for cabs if i go engl i'm thinking of getting the engl XXL 4x12 vint.30 cab since it's noted for it's "fat bottomend, tight mids and shining treble" which sounds like something i'd like.

however a new amp has been thrown into the mix and others thrown out...i decided to ditch the mesa idea since i like my current ultra plus better anyway and also i don't think the vetta II would be a good idea for me for live use....but i've decided to take a look at the KRANK revolution 100w head and matching KRANK 4x12 cab.

so my list is now (in no specific order)...

-Engl powerball
-Diezel vh4
-Bogner uber.
-Bogner ecstasy
-KRANK revolution

or another option idea that was given to me by a friend...have Trace at voodoo amps mod my current ultra plus and get a custom voodoo 4x12 cab to go with it (i may get the cab anyway)...this will be the cheapest option by far but i'll still only have one amp and i'd kinda like a second one just to be able to get more sound variety.

-Mike

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Wow TO. I don't see how 50 watt tube heads aren't loud enough for any application. Maybe that is a two guitar band thing? .

Maybe, but it's the truth.
On a 50W head I was running 9-10 on the volume ... on a 100W, about a 3, I would say. There has to be more involved than the theoretical 3dB everyone keeps throwing around.

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Hey Mike, When you decide to go... let me know, I would love to go too. And as you know I would buy the Bogner You and I are very differnt players, but I think it would give you what you want. The Uberschell is a bit much fro me.... I still think the Shiva would be all I need (and More) :laugh2:

sounds like a plan Dave...maybe we can set a day to go into NYC and get a rehersal room (the ultra room) and just test drive a ton of amps for a few hours!! here's a link tot he studios site so you can see what they have and what they sell....tons of great stuff that i'm sure will make you drool and your wallet run and hide hehehe

http://www.ultrasoundrehearsal.com/

-Mike

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

If you do so, pls let me know and we'll grab some pints!!

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Maybe, but it's the truth.
On a 50W head I was running 9-10 on the volume ... on a 100W, about a 3, I would say. There has to be more involved than the theoretical 3dB everyone keeps throwing around.

i agree it's seems like more than 3db to me also...at one studio we have rehersed at in the past i played through a mesa single rect while my other guitarist was using a mesa dual rect and i had to crank that little single rect to keep up with him and the drummer....poor little amp took a beating hehehehe

-Mike

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

If you do so, pls let me know and we'll grab some pints!!

come with us if you can...i'm sure i could use some tone advice from you and dave and you can see how big of a hack guitarist i am for one who owns 11 guitars hahahahaha. well i don't think i'm that bad for what i play but you and Dave make me look real bad hahaha...and also this may be a good time for a crash course lesson perhaps like i asked you about before.

-Mike

 

[Soiledwork]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

The ENGL cabs are front loaded with V-30 speakers. Not my cup of tea....but more power to ya if you like that kind of thing. Too harsh front loaded for my tastes. I have a front loaded Diezel cab and I went with a V-30 /H-30 mix to tame that harshness. Just FYI...

 

[Soiledwork]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

I also don't think the ENGL's have "massive" bottom at all as compared to other less compressed amps. Go play a Dual Rec or a Uberschall and tell me the ENGLs have massive bottom. Not to say I don't love my Powerball but my Randall RM 100 has waay more bottom (actually too much to be usable) than my ENGL....

 

[Soiledwork]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

If you're in the US this guy on harmony Central is selling his for $1200 shipped:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=908630

Might want to jump on that deal....

 

[Neeradj]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Neeradj: thanks a ton for all the good info...well by what you say the powerball is much more "me" i like a thick thick sound that shakes your chest during a high gain palm muted power chord. as for cabs if i go engl i'm thinking of getting the engl XXL 4x12 vint.30 cab since it's noted for it's "fat bottomend, tight mids and shining treble" which sounds like something i'd like.

Haven't tried the ENGL XXL 4x12 yet, though it does look very promising! As for the palm mutes, I have to disagree with Soiledwork, I'm not sure what the exact translation is, but most dutch Powerball players kinda refer to it's bottom end as something that'll make your knees shake. I heard a clip from that guy I was talking about earlier (the trash player that also owned the Savage 120) and my subwoofer made my desk shake as did it with other people who downloaded it. I don't think it's still online, since it was about 18 months ago, but it sounded extremely tight. As does my Powerball. The only tighter bottom end I ever heard was the VHT Ultralead. If you do get the Powerball, the groundshaking bottom end is provided by the bottom switches.

Also note, the Powerball is not very loud, so it's likely you'll have to mic it in very large venues. It's not a downer for me as I don't play very large venues, but if you're often playing in a large venue with bad PAs you should definitely think twice about getting the PB.

 

[Soiledwork]

Re: Engl...Powerball vs Savage? and other amps...i can't decide what to do...

Haven't tried the ENGL XXL 4x12 yet, though it does look very promising! As for the palm mutes, I have to disagree with Soiledwork, I'm not sure what the exact translation is, but most dutch Powerball players kinda refer to it's bottom end as something that'll make your knees shake. I heard a clip from that guy I was talking about earlier (the trash player that also owned the Savage 120) and my subwoofer made my desk shake as did it with other people who downloaded it. I don't think it's still online, since it was about 18 months ago, but it sounded extremely tight. As does my Powerball. The only tighter bottom end I ever heard was the VHT Ultralead. If you do get the Powerball, the groundshaking bottom end is provided by the bottom switches.

Also note, the Powerball is not very loud, so it's likely you'll have to mic it in very large venues. It's not a downer for me as I don't play very large venues, but if you're often playing in a large venue with bad PAs you should definitely think twice about getting the PB.

Not trying to argue here, but where did I say that the PB didn't have "tight" bottom? Massive and tight are two different things. Massive should be defined as HUGE or possibly less compressed sounding bottom end. It should have more usable bottom than needed. I max mine on my Powerball for example. I can't even use 1/3 of it with my Randall modular tube head. The Depth Punch knob button on the PB acts as a resonance control for perceived depth and bottom. It's much akin really to the resonance knob on the 5150 amps. Not saying they are the same or which is better as that's another discussion. I define compressed as a tighter/more fast attack amp but it's not quite as "big" sounding as a Uber, DR, Rivera KH-II, or Randall RM 100 amps that I have owned. Definitely, definitely, definitely the Powerball has very tight fast attack bottom which is why I love it for Fear factory, Soilwork, In Flames, KSE metal that influences myself......it's an awesome amp....