Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
- Thread starter lex666
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
If you figure that a Gibson 335 has about $300 of pickups & hardware (at retail), that leaves you with a couple grand worth of wood & frets. If you have the money go for it. The quality of raw materials & workmanship is a little better, but you is it that much better?
I have a black Epi Sheraton that I installed a '59N & Custom 5 in, and it sounds great; I'd put it up against any Gibson 335, and bet that 99 out 0f 100 players couldn't tell it from a Gibson blindfolded. To me, this really makes sense. Get a used, like-new Sheraton for $300 to 400, put in a couple of good American-made pickups, and you save a bundle. For live gigs, you aren't out a fortune if its banged up or stolen.
Another viable option is a Japanese-made Epi Elitist 335 or Sheraton, which rival Gibson for quality, and are priced in between the Gibsons & regular Epi's.
If you want to spend 2,000 or 3,000 regardless, you can get an Epi Elite & a couple Sheratons with Duncans (each with a different combination of pickups, like one with PAF's, and another with a hot bridge), for what one Gibson 335 will cost you. To me, there is no other way to go. But then, I'm a working man.
If you figure that a Gibson 335 has about $300 of pickups & hardware (at retail), that leaves you with a couple grand worth of wood & frets. If you have the money go for it. The quality of raw materials & workmanship is a little better, but you is it that much better?
I have a black Epi Sheraton that I installed a '59N & Custom 5 in, and it sounds great; I'd put it up against any Gibson 335, and bet that 99 out 0f 100 players couldn't tell it from a Gibson blindfolded. To me, this really makes sense. Get a used, like-new Sheraton for $300 to 400, put in a couple of good American-made pickups, and you save a bundle. For live gigs, you aren't out a fortune if its banged up or stolen.
Another viable option is a Japanese-made Epi Elitist 335 or Sheraton, which rival Gibson for quality, and are priced in between the Gibsons & regular Epi's.
If you want to spend 2,000 or 3,000 regardless, you can get an Epi Elite & a couple Sheratons with Duncans (each with a different combination of pickups, like one with PAF's, and another with a hot bridge), for what one Gibson 335 will cost you. To me, there is no other way to go. But then, I'm a working man.
Bludave
New member
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
The Epis will have lower quality electronics and they have a Maple neck. The Gibsons will have better pickups and pots and have a mahogony neck. The Epi is not a bad guitar. The Gibson is a lot better. A buddy of mine just picked up a 335 used. I think he paid $1750 for it. Its a pretty nice guitar. Here are a few things to consider:
If you are looking at a semi hollow these are some negatives that you should be aware of.
#1 Semi Holows can be problematic in feedback. Due to the air trapped in the body they can howl at high volume/high gain. This can be fixed in a number of ways. One is to wax dip the pickups, 2 is to "stuff" the guitar with foam or paper to minimize the air. 3 use a long chord and stand as far away from the amp as possible.
The second negative is if you like to tinker with your guitars, wiring a semi hollow is not an easy thing to do. You have to work through the "F" holes or the pickup holes and this can get really tedious. I refuse to do any work on mine I take it to a tech.
As far as positives go. There are many. I personally own 2 Les Pauls, an SG standard a 335 a Guild Bluesbird and 2 Custom Teles that are equipped with 2 Humbuckers. My 335 has a lot more versatility than any other HB guitar I own. The tone and volume conntrols can be used to get a wide variety of sound out of this guitar. I own a 1985 Dot RI Gibson 335. This guitar is equipped with the Gibson PAf RI pickups and they are dynamite. I would never consider changing them. The neck on 335's is more player friendly than any Epiphone I have played. I also feel a 335 is less agressive sounding than a Les Paul guitar is. For me, a Blues player it is a better choice.
One other guitar worth mentioning here is the B.B. King Lucille. These guitars are basically a 345 Stereo, but they have no "F" holes, so the feedback issue becomes less of an issue. Because they have no "F" holes they have a cavity in the back so changing electronics is a lot easier. The one primary thing I don't like about the B.B. King is the bridge. It has a micro tuning type of tailpiece. Easy fix. I know Epiphone was making this also, but I have not played an Epi. The Gibson Lucille is a sweet guitar.
http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=15&CollectionID=1
http://www.gibson.com/Products/GibsonElectric/Semi-hollow Body/
The Epis will have lower quality electronics and they have a Maple neck. The Gibsons will have better pickups and pots and have a mahogony neck. The Epi is not a bad guitar. The Gibson is a lot better. A buddy of mine just picked up a 335 used. I think he paid $1750 for it. Its a pretty nice guitar. Here are a few things to consider:
If you are looking at a semi hollow these are some negatives that you should be aware of.
#1 Semi Holows can be problematic in feedback. Due to the air trapped in the body they can howl at high volume/high gain. This can be fixed in a number of ways. One is to wax dip the pickups, 2 is to "stuff" the guitar with foam or paper to minimize the air. 3 use a long chord and stand as far away from the amp as possible.
The second negative is if you like to tinker with your guitars, wiring a semi hollow is not an easy thing to do. You have to work through the "F" holes or the pickup holes and this can get really tedious. I refuse to do any work on mine I take it to a tech.
As far as positives go. There are many. I personally own 2 Les Pauls, an SG standard a 335 a Guild Bluesbird and 2 Custom Teles that are equipped with 2 Humbuckers. My 335 has a lot more versatility than any other HB guitar I own. The tone and volume conntrols can be used to get a wide variety of sound out of this guitar. I own a 1985 Dot RI Gibson 335. This guitar is equipped with the Gibson PAf RI pickups and they are dynamite. I would never consider changing them. The neck on 335's is more player friendly than any Epiphone I have played. I also feel a 335 is less agressive sounding than a Les Paul guitar is. For me, a Blues player it is a better choice.
One other guitar worth mentioning here is the B.B. King Lucille. These guitars are basically a 345 Stereo, but they have no "F" holes, so the feedback issue becomes less of an issue. Because they have no "F" holes they have a cavity in the back so changing electronics is a lot easier. The one primary thing I don't like about the B.B. King is the bridge. It has a micro tuning type of tailpiece. Easy fix. I know Epiphone was making this also, but I have not played an Epi. The Gibson Lucille is a sweet guitar.
http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=15&CollectionID=1
http://www.gibson.com/Products/GibsonElectric/Semi-hollow Body/
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scottish
WeirdScienceologist
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
yeah i used to own a black epi sheraton II and it rocked. i cant honestly compare it to a 335 because ive never played one. that said, i never felt the epi was lacking. it doers need new pups though.
only reason i sold it was because it is insanely heavy and was killing my back
yeah i used to own a black epi sheraton II and it rocked. i cant honestly compare it to a 335 because ive never played one. that said, i never felt the epi was lacking. it doers need new pups though.
only reason i sold it was because it is insanely heavy and was killing my back
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
Having owned and sold a Sheraton that I highly tweaked out I can assure you that the differences between a Sheraton and the 335 are night and day obvious. The Sheraton is a very respectable guitar but is in no way a clone of a 335 in terms of sound, feel or playability.
If you are looking for the good stuff, I will highly recommend a Yamaha SA2200. I bought mine new for $1400. The materials are right, the electronics are solid and the tone/playability are top shelf. I haven't even felt the need to tinker with the electronics and that is pretty rare for me.
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/335a.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/335b.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/335c.jpg
Having owned and sold a Sheraton that I highly tweaked out I can assure you that the differences between a Sheraton and the 335 are night and day obvious. The Sheraton is a very respectable guitar but is in no way a clone of a 335 in terms of sound, feel or playability.
If you are looking for the good stuff, I will highly recommend a Yamaha SA2200. I bought mine new for $1400. The materials are right, the electronics are solid and the tone/playability are top shelf. I haven't even felt the need to tinker with the electronics and that is pretty rare for me.
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/335a.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/335b.jpg
http://members.toast.net/dwyss/pics/335c.jpg
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S
Skarekrough
Guest
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
It can depend on your hands and the day and your ears...
I spent years picking up various Gibsons 335's and Epi Dots and giving them a play for a bit until something would jump out at me as a dealbreaker. Alot of times it had to do with the profile or size of the neck.
I found the Gibson necks were typically plenty deep but not wide enough. The Epi's were wide but not deep enough.
This past November I picked up an Epi Dot Studio totally randomly and it had the perfect neck and resonance. I didn't even need to plug it in to know it was what I'd been looking for.
It took me almost three months to pry it out of my hands to get a set of Vintage Vibe pickups and stacked pots with Hovland caps installed.
It's everything I wanted in a hollowbody. it gets that nice round and warm sound for days on end.
It can depend on your hands and the day and your ears...
I spent years picking up various Gibsons 335's and Epi Dots and giving them a play for a bit until something would jump out at me as a dealbreaker. Alot of times it had to do with the profile or size of the neck.
I found the Gibson necks were typically plenty deep but not wide enough. The Epi's were wide but not deep enough.
This past November I picked up an Epi Dot Studio totally randomly and it had the perfect neck and resonance. I didn't even need to plug it in to know it was what I'd been looking for.
It took me almost three months to pry it out of my hands to get a set of Vintage Vibe pickups and stacked pots with Hovland caps installed.
It's everything I wanted in a hollowbody. it gets that nice round and warm sound for days on end.
Bludave
New member
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
This is also a very nice Semi. (I like the Gibsons better but worth a look)
http://www.ibanez.com/hollow/series.aspx?s=jsm
This is also a very nice Semi. (I like the Gibsons better but worth a look)
http://www.ibanez.com/hollow/series.aspx?s=jsm
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
Geez, the blues guys don't see eye to eye here.
With Epi's, or any Asian-made guitar, they need American-made pickups; that's a given. No surprise. I replace the pots on mine too, so I'm on a level playing field with Gibson 335's electronically, maybe even better. I don't like the A2 magnets they use in almost all their neck pickups; too dark & muffled. An A4 or A5 magnet on a neck PU for a 335 makes much more sense than what Gibson stocks theirs with. I think I beat Gibsons on this point. Sure their wood is better, but do the math & you're spending $1,000 to $2,000 for that piece of wood. That's kind of pricey. There's no end of players who've spent the money on a Gibson & been disappointed.
I've never had a problem with feedback on a 335 playing live. On a 330 or other fully-hollow body, yes, that's an issue. But if you're playing at a typical size local bar at any kind of reasonable volume, feedback isn't an issue with a 335. If you insist on blasting so loud people can't carry on conversations anywhere in the place except the parking lot, then there may be some feedback, but you'd probably also feedback with a solid body, especially if you're using a lot of distortion.
Adding wax is not the answer to controlling feedback. Too much wax in a pickup helps to ruin the tone, one of the reasons why Asian pickups sound muddy; they're literally drowning in wax. You don't see that on Seymour Duncans, who use it sparingly
I've re-wried dozens of guitars, most have been 335's or hollow bodies. I've fished a lot of electronics through F holes (including many full-size 1" pots), and its no big deal. I've put the 21-sound Jimmy Page system into many 335's, with its 4 push-pull pots. I use a stiff plastic coated wire to pull through the neck tone pot (the kind they use to hold a new lawn hose in place), and the other three pots I can usually do by hand without the wire. Don't let F holes scare you. Very easy to work with. This DOES NOT take a tech. That's an old wive's tale. Trust me.
I had a Lucille, but sold it because the neck was way too skinny (I have large hands): BB King likes skinny necks, but many of us have a limit on what we can tolerate. Because of the var-tone switch jammed in there, its actually harder to reach the electronics than an F hole. Too much crap in a small space. As 99% of us who've used used a vari-tone know, they have too many capacitors which make the tones weak & thin; settings 2 through 5 basically sound lousy. Most guys keep theirs on bypass. Who wants to lug a 2nd amp around so that the neck & bridge pickups can each have their own amps for a cheesy stereo effect. Not many. And the micro-tuning bridge is difficult for tuning; pretty much pointless. Lucille seems like a good concept at first, but after owning one, its a big disappointment. You're paying for features you don't use and won't like. A straight 355 is a better choice.
A Sheraton with Duncans or DiMarzios is a very nice sounding guitar. Buy the guitar & pickups used (but in excellent condition) & you're spending less than $500. If you want to spend 3 to 5 times as much on a Gibson 335, go ahead. But don't think that you'll get more than a minimal increase in tone improvement, and maybe none at all, as many players believe Duncan's sound better than Gibson pickups. Remember that every piece of wood is unique, and that $1,000 piece on a Gibson may or may not sound better than the wood on a Sheraton. No guarantees. Spending more doesn't mean you'll automatically get more. Sheraton + Duncans = great tone.
As far as the positives of a 335 go...we agree! There's nothing like a 335. Arguably the most versatile & best-sounding guitar design ever. I think of those poor confused Fender boys who have no idea of what they're missing.
Geez, the blues guys don't see eye to eye here.
With Epi's, or any Asian-made guitar, they need American-made pickups; that's a given. No surprise. I replace the pots on mine too, so I'm on a level playing field with Gibson 335's electronically, maybe even better. I don't like the A2 magnets they use in almost all their neck pickups; too dark & muffled. An A4 or A5 magnet on a neck PU for a 335 makes much more sense than what Gibson stocks theirs with. I think I beat Gibsons on this point. Sure their wood is better, but do the math & you're spending $1,000 to $2,000 for that piece of wood. That's kind of pricey. There's no end of players who've spent the money on a Gibson & been disappointed.
I've never had a problem with feedback on a 335 playing live. On a 330 or other fully-hollow body, yes, that's an issue. But if you're playing at a typical size local bar at any kind of reasonable volume, feedback isn't an issue with a 335. If you insist on blasting so loud people can't carry on conversations anywhere in the place except the parking lot, then there may be some feedback, but you'd probably also feedback with a solid body, especially if you're using a lot of distortion.
Adding wax is not the answer to controlling feedback. Too much wax in a pickup helps to ruin the tone, one of the reasons why Asian pickups sound muddy; they're literally drowning in wax. You don't see that on Seymour Duncans, who use it sparingly
I've re-wried dozens of guitars, most have been 335's or hollow bodies. I've fished a lot of electronics through F holes (including many full-size 1" pots), and its no big deal. I've put the 21-sound Jimmy Page system into many 335's, with its 4 push-pull pots. I use a stiff plastic coated wire to pull through the neck tone pot (the kind they use to hold a new lawn hose in place), and the other three pots I can usually do by hand without the wire. Don't let F holes scare you. Very easy to work with. This DOES NOT take a tech. That's an old wive's tale. Trust me.
I had a Lucille, but sold it because the neck was way too skinny (I have large hands): BB King likes skinny necks, but many of us have a limit on what we can tolerate. Because of the var-tone switch jammed in there, its actually harder to reach the electronics than an F hole. Too much crap in a small space. As 99% of us who've used used a vari-tone know, they have too many capacitors which make the tones weak & thin; settings 2 through 5 basically sound lousy. Most guys keep theirs on bypass. Who wants to lug a 2nd amp around so that the neck & bridge pickups can each have their own amps for a cheesy stereo effect. Not many. And the micro-tuning bridge is difficult for tuning; pretty much pointless. Lucille seems like a good concept at first, but after owning one, its a big disappointment. You're paying for features you don't use and won't like. A straight 355 is a better choice.
A Sheraton with Duncans or DiMarzios is a very nice sounding guitar. Buy the guitar & pickups used (but in excellent condition) & you're spending less than $500. If you want to spend 3 to 5 times as much on a Gibson 335, go ahead. But don't think that you'll get more than a minimal increase in tone improvement, and maybe none at all, as many players believe Duncan's sound better than Gibson pickups. Remember that every piece of wood is unique, and that $1,000 piece on a Gibson may or may not sound better than the wood on a Sheraton. No guarantees. Spending more doesn't mean you'll automatically get more. Sheraton + Duncans = great tone.
As far as the positives of a 335 go...we agree! There's nothing like a 335. Arguably the most versatile & best-sounding guitar design ever. I think of those poor confused Fender boys who have no idea of what they're missing.
Fender_Punk
BerriesAndCreamologist
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
Haven't read the other posts so I'm sorry if I sound redundant. As most know I can't stand Gibsons or Epis, but a friend of mine had an Elitist Sheraton for awhile and it was sweet. The minibuckers sounded really nice, didn't play to badly, and aside from the body shape it wasn't too ugly. It was extremely well constructed and unplugged it was full and resonant, which spoke through when plugged in. He got rid of it though for PRS McCarty because the neck killed his hand. He loved that guitar too.
Haven't read the other posts so I'm sorry if I sound redundant. As most know I can't stand Gibsons or Epis, but a friend of mine had an Elitist Sheraton for awhile and it was sweet. The minibuckers sounded really nice, didn't play to badly, and aside from the body shape it wasn't too ugly. It was extremely well constructed and unplugged it was full and resonant, which spoke through when plugged in. He got rid of it though for PRS McCarty because the neck killed his hand. He loved that guitar too.
lex666
New member
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
Thanks everyone, that has been some great input so far.
Has anyone had the chance or heard anything good or bad about this guitar? its a Gibson 339. essentialy a 335, but with a smaller, lighter weight body. Gibson seems to be on a weight-relief trend lately.
Anyways, it looks good, but I like the price of the Epi Sheraton alot better.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-ES339-Semi-Hollow-Electric-Guitar?sku=515256
Thanks!
Thanks everyone, that has been some great input so far.
Has anyone had the chance or heard anything good or bad about this guitar? its a Gibson 339. essentialy a 335, but with a smaller, lighter weight body. Gibson seems to be on a weight-relief trend lately.
Anyways, it looks good, but I like the price of the Epi Sheraton alot better.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-ES339-Semi-Hollow-Electric-Guitar?sku=515256
Thanks!
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
Looks interesting!
The smaller body will make for a bit different sound.
Luke
Luke
Looks interesting!
The smaller body will make for a bit different sound.
Luke
Luke
Sludgenutz
New member
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
Hey guys, Epi's are great deals ...but does anyone have opinion on the plywood differences and center blocks between these two makes? As with all guitars, the wood is where it's at (economically and sonically). I would venture a guess the heart of these guitars is the quaity of the plywood in the body.
OTOH, if cranked up a bit with an amp, perhaps a "deader" guitar could be less squeely?
Hey guys, Epi's are great deals ...but does anyone have opinion on the plywood differences and center blocks between these two makes? As with all guitars, the wood is where it's at (economically and sonically). I would venture a guess the heart of these guitars is the quaity of the plywood in the body.
OTOH, if cranked up a bit with an amp, perhaps a "deader" guitar could be less squeely?
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
I love my Sheraton dearly. It sounded decent even with the crappy stock electronics.
I haven't played a 335 that I've liked as much as my Epi.
That said, they are different guitars. I'm sure it has much to do with the fact that the Epi has a maple 5 piece neck vs the Gibson's mahogany neck.
What I want to know is, how different is the Epi (on average) soundwise than a 335. The reason I ask is because, while my Epi has a maple neck, it also has a mahogany center block. Does this get it a bit closer to the Gibson's maple block/mahogany neck construction?
I love my Sheraton dearly. It sounded decent even with the crappy stock electronics.
I haven't played a 335 that I've liked as much as my Epi.
That said, they are different guitars. I'm sure it has much to do with the fact that the Epi has a maple 5 piece neck vs the Gibson's mahogany neck.
What I want to know is, how different is the Epi (on average) soundwise than a 335. The reason I ask is because, while my Epi has a maple neck, it also has a mahogany center block. Does this get it a bit closer to the Gibson's maple block/mahogany neck construction?
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
When I toured the Gibson factory in Memphis about 3 years ago they were so proud that they were using BALSA as the wood for the centre blocks...I kid you not....they said that it was to reduce the weight of the 335's. Certainly not my idea of a tone wood !!
Not sure if this is still being done or not.
I have a MIJ 335 (Greco from 1981). These old MIJ guitars are also worth looking at IMHO. It came alive with new SD pickups.
lex666 Good luck with finding your 335...they are great guitars. Always my favourite.
Dave
When I toured the Gibson factory in Memphis about 3 years ago they were so proud that they were using BALSA as the wood for the centre blocks...I kid you not....they said that it was to reduce the weight of the 335's. Certainly not my idea of a tone wood !!
Not sure if this is still being done or not.
I have a MIJ 335 (Greco from 1981). These old MIJ guitars are also worth looking at IMHO. It came alive with new SD pickups.
lex666 Good luck with finding your 335...they are great guitars. Always my favourite.
Dave
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Bludave
New member
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
Having played solid bodies for years, I used to think a 335 was a little big with it's 16" lower bout. But it's so smooth & comfortable, that I got used to it in no time, and firmly believe that its the best-feeling guitar design. I wouldn't want to go give it up for a 336/356 with a 14" bout.
There's been plenty of players who are not tall (Clapton comes to mind) who play 335's and don't find them too large. I think a full-size 335 is going to give a better tone with more acoustic resonance, and be better balanced neck-to-body.
The only thing I can think of to improve a 335 would be a neck-through design, and to put a Phat Cat or mini-humbucker at the neck and maybe in a middle position too.
Having played solid bodies for years, I used to think a 335 was a little big with it's 16" lower bout. But it's so smooth & comfortable, that I got used to it in no time, and firmly believe that its the best-feeling guitar design. I wouldn't want to go give it up for a 336/356 with a 14" bout.
There's been plenty of players who are not tall (Clapton comes to mind) who play 335's and don't find them too large. I think a full-size 335 is going to give a better tone with more acoustic resonance, and be better balanced neck-to-body.
The only thing I can think of to improve a 335 would be a neck-through design, and to put a Phat Cat or mini-humbucker at the neck and maybe in a middle position too.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Malicious Matt
New member
Re: Epi Sheraton vs. Gibson 335
Check this out: http://www.edroman.com/guitars/eastman/bluesdeluxe.htm
Looks pretty cool, and is a similar style to a ES335. I bet its expensive though.
Check this out: http://www.edroman.com/guitars/eastman/bluesdeluxe.htm
Looks pretty cool, and is a similar style to a ES335. I bet its expensive though.
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