EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

[Jacew]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

I have bypass & non bypass pedals and frankly i can tell no difference.
I can tell if a pedal is in the wrong signal chain.

If you have buffer first in chain or actives, the other decent buffer later in chain is not going to make a much difference. Very rarely they are perfect though, so more buffers you have, more you're going to get a loss.

There is no way you wouldn't notice the difference if you compare non-buffered vs. buffered chain.

Boss DD-7 and RC-3 had pretty poor buffers in my opinion. Both added some really annoing sheen over my tone. LS-2 is fine though, interestingly.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

You won't hear true bypass or non true bypass what you will hear is capacitance. Too many TB pedals linked together without an inline buffered pedal is a recipe for tone suck. Often heard in the form of loss of high-end and the dulling of your tone.
I found this to be much more of an issue with pedals in front of the preamp and not much of an issue with pedals in an amp's loop.

I have one in the loop of my XXX and it is on all the time. I like using it because I can manipulate the midrange frequency to my liking and boost the lowend for when I'm playing at lower volumes. I can also fine tune the overall output of the amp with the level slider.

A drawback to using eq's are they can turn into a crutch, where you can't satisfyingly play an amp without one. Many players have already experience, knowing or unknowingly with the steadfast and constant use of boost pedals to get "their" sound.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

If you have buffer first in chain or actives, the other decent buffer later in chain is not going to make a much difference. Very rarely they are perfect though, so more buffers you have, more you're going to get a loss.

There is no way you wouldn't notice the difference if you compare non-buffered vs. buffered chain.

Boss DD-7 and RC-3 had pretty poor buffers in my opinion. Both added some really annoing sheen over my tone. LS-2 is fine though, interestingly.

I agree on the Boss DD pedal, i had one that was terrible in the loop of a preamp/power amp. I sent it back.
The only Boss pedal i didn't like.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

My experience: no downside. EQ (Boss DD-7 anyway) up front, depending on what frequencies you're boosting, raises noise levels (but admittedly I'm talking about modelling amps. i.e. EQ is therefore pre built-in distortion and pre pre-amp. gain).

 

[Jacew]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

You won't hear true bypass or non true bypass what you will hear is capacitance. Too many TB pedals linked together without an inline buffered pedal is a recipe for tone suck. Often heard in the form of loss of high-end and the dulling of your tone.
I found this to be much more of an issue with pedals in front of the preamp and not much of an issue with pedals in an amp's loop.

You're contradicting yourself

Yes, it's capacitance you hear and it's caused by cables, not by true bypass switching. Thing is, it's always present without buffer. Once you add buffer you get brighter tone, because of the lack of normal tone suck caused by the cables.

So it's really whatever way you want to think of it. Buffer in your chain changes your tone, so does all the cable you add. But True Bypass itself doesn't...

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

See what I started...

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

Well one thing i noticed right off is i had to back off the sliders in the loop config as apposed to when i was running thru the front as it was much louder thru the loop.

Exactly, because when you slam the preamp it compresses it, whereas your power amp side has much more headroom in that regard. If anyone needs a lead boost in a band (esp with a second guitar) an EQ in the loop is a must IMO, volume boost and some EQ shaping to cut.

See what I started...

Yeah I was gunna say....

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

Exactly, because when you slam the preamp it compresses it, whereas your power amp side has much more headroom in that regard. If anyone needs a lead boost in a band (esp with a second guitar) an EQ in the loop is a must IMO, volume boost and some EQ shaping to cut.




Yeah I was gunna say....

My Dual Rec has a Solo Boost function too, works very well.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

I used to be in a band with a guy with a dual rec, ended up using an EQ in the loop instead of the solo boost function. Was able to shape much better instead of just increasing all the 'woof' as well. Made for a much better mix overall. YMMV

 

[dave74]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

And (with a recto) you can also have the other channel set for the solo tone w/or without the loop engaged on one or both.
You can go orange for rhythm and red w/loop for solo,,,,,,,or vise versa for example.

That way it's simply one touch to make either a subtle change in volume, or make a drastic voicing/effects/volume change.

 

[Jacew]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

See what I started...

Well. I was agreeing with him. Not arguing...

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

And (with a recto) you can also have the other channel set for the solo tone w/or without the loop engaged on one or both.
You can go orange for rhythm and red w/loop for solo,,,,,,,or vise versa for example.

That way it's simply one touch to make either a subtle change in volume, or make a drastic voicing/effects/volume change.

Actually i had my loop hardwired to "series" mode so i could use pedals. Its on all the time.
Parallel didn't work well with pedals. IMO MESA should have made series/parallel loop switchable on the mid 2000's 3 channel Rectifiers.
I don't know too many players that use rack rigs anymore.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

Well. I was agreeing with him. Not arguing...

No, I meant that this true bypass/buffered debate is because of my first comment In this thread.
I caused it. Lol

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?



Update : so after more net surfing i found the phase 90 should be before the dirt pedals with the wah.
Also when i run 2 amps stereo i couldn't use the EQ as my modded Marshall has no loop and i like to smack the front end with EQ & dirt/fuzz.
So i moved the EQ post dirt pedals again and the gate in front of the TC Chorus.
This actually sounds really good & gives me flexibility.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

You're contradicting yourself

Yes, it's capacitance you hear and it's caused by cables, not by true bypass switching. Thing is, it's always present without buffer. Once you add buffer you get brighter tone, because of the lack of normal tone suck caused by the cables.

So it's really whatever way you want to think of it. Buffer in your chain changes your tone, so does all the cable you add. But True Bypass itself doesn't...

How so? The main reason you get tone loss from having a multitude of TB pedals is because you are essentially elongating your long cable line. The signals passing through straight them. If you're using a 20ft cable and then plugging into 5,6,7,8 TB pedals with no inline buffer pedal then you're going to hear high end roll off because your adding length to your input signal by having all those TB pedals.

 

[Jacew]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

How so? The main reason you get tone loss from TB pedals is because you are essentially elongating your long cable line. The signals are passing through them. If you're using a 20ft cable and then plugging into 5,6,7,8 TB pedals with no inline buffer pedal then your going to hear high end roll off because your adding length to your input signal by having all those TB pedals.

The "contradiction" was just a remark about this :

You won't hear true bypass or non true bypass what you will hear is capacitance. Too many TB pedals linked together without an inline buffered pedal is a recipe for tone suck.

As of true bypass adding the cable lenght. Sure. Couple is not big deal though. And anyway all you need is one or two pedals with buffer in any case. Better to have TB pedals after the buffer though as it's simply less likely to cause problems.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

Namely the buffer in the switchless wah (95Q?). It wreaked havoc on my QR.
Took me forever to figure out that it was the culprit.

Oh yeah, I remember that. Unfortunate....

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

Clippage ... OCD, Fuzz then OCD at very end, CE-2 Boss Chorus & verb, delay & wah on leads.

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

See what I started...

Are you familiar with Godwin's Law? that as every discussion grows longer, the probability of the discussion devoling into a comparison with Nazis resulting increases?

I think True Bypass is the Guitar discussion equivilent :lmao:

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: EQ in the loop, is there a downside ?

Are you familiar with Godwin's Law? that as every discussion grows longer, the probability of the discussion devoling into a comparison with Nazis resulting increases?

I think True Bypass is the Guitar discussion equivilent :lmao:

Haha!
I hadn’t heard about that law but it sounds pretty accurate!