expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

[Davii]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Yes, I appreciate much it you care to share that info.

An A3-modded '59n is not boomy at all, and the highs are sweet, but articulated at the same time. It became my fave neck p'up for Jazz and Blues.

HTH,

Screw coil: DCR 3.97 (1.89H), Slug coil: DCR 3.76 (1.96H).

It splits/parallels really well, but like I said, a lot of low end in series. So much so, that I thought I had it far too high at first, and the signal was clipping. Obviously it's still early days, though caught a little off guard on first use!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Screw coil: DCR 3.97 (1.89H), Slug coil: DCR 3.76 (1.96H).

It splits/parallels really well, but like I said, a lot of low end in series. So much so, that I thought I had it far too high at first, and the signal was clipping. Obviously it's still early days, though caught a little off guard on first use!

That's why I've asked about the specs. There are some aspects of MJ's way of thinking when she makes one-offs that I've "noticed", analyzing the data I've gathered through the years.

In your case, if the wire she chose is PE, the different DC readings, although relatively small, indicate a voluntary "coil-mismatch", a bigger, wound with less tension screw coil, combined with a smaller, much tighter slug coil, and that's what brings that big low end and at the same time keeping the highs leveled, so as you know, A3 mags actually produce less lows than A2s do.

That way of thinking I've found it imbedded also in the prototype of the "Hy-Bro" neck. But in my case, the mismatch was too big, resulting in a p'up that actually did the opposite of what was asked for, and my reporting on that killed that project and apparently the "Forum p'up" as a concept altogether as well.

Let's see how you'll like it after the honeymoon phase, Davii. You're welcome to PM me at any time.

Yours very truly,

 

[YeRedHouseOverYonder]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Cos I see a LOT of guys raving about their vintage p90's, and a good portion of those early to mid 50's p90's are A3's.

+1

Off topic, but I really liked those early 50s p90s. They sounded extremely special. I've owned two of them and preferred them more than say '68 clear bobbins and late 50s p90s. The early ones fetch more cash because they have an amazing amount of depth and character. I assumed it was the wind, but if they did indeed use A3s instead of A5s, it makes sense why I loved those in the neck position.



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[JeffB]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

+1

Off topic, but I really liked those early 50s p90s. They sounded extremely special. I've owned two of them and preferred them more than say '68 clear bobbins and late 50s p90s. The early ones fetch more cash because they have an amazing amount of depth and character. I assumed it was the wind, but if they did indeed use A3s instead of A5s, it makes sense why I loved those in the neck position.



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I grew up playing my Dad's 1954 ES125. Single p90. My brother still has the guitar. Still the best sounding p90 I have ever heard. Modern production stuff sounds horrible comparitively. Some of the booteeky winds are really good, but that 54 is something else.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Technically, Alnico 3 should be called Alni 3 since it has no cobalt.

That might be the reason it's the weakest of the "Alnico" magnets.

Really, it should have been called Alni 2 since it's even weaker than Alnico 2 which does contain cobalt.

My source? Gibson: http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/Pickup-Joint-Magnets-Decoded.aspx

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Technically, Alnico 3 should be called Alni 3 since it has no cobalt.

http://www.allianceorg.com/pdfs/MMPA_0100-00.pdf

The official American institute of all things magnetics, called the Magnetic Materials Producers Association, doesn't share your view on the subject, including grade 3 as one of the officially recognized AlNiCo grades. I'm pretty sure they have a "technical" reason for that.

Sorry!

 

[gregory]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

I put one in an Invader and after three years it still hasn't fully settled in.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

http://www.allianceorg.com/pdfs/MMPA_0100-00.pdf

The official American institute of all things magnetics, called the Magnetic Materials Producers Association, doesn't share your view on the subject, including grade 3 as one of the officially recognized AlNiCo grades. I'm pretty sure they have a "technical" reason for that.

Sorry!

Take it up with Gibson. http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/Pickup-Joint-Magnets-Decoded.aspx

"It may be a little counterintuitive, but Alnico III is the weakest of the magnets used in pickups because it has no cobalt. But I guess it’d be confusing to just call it ‘Alni.’ It has the lowest magnetic pull, which means the strings are less influenced by the pickup’s magnetic pull, and this makes it a popular choice for neck pickups. It’s a little more ‘confident’ in its tone compared to Alnico II, although both exhibit a similar ‘softness.’ Many players like to balance an Alnico III neck pickup against an Alnico II in the bridge."

Not sorry.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

I put one in an Invader and after three years it still hasn't fully settled in.

May I ask you how you know it's still not "fully settled in", after such a long time has passed?

I assume you're using some kind of measuring device/s or process/es to being able to make the assessment, so I'm very excited to learn about something I fully admit having no knowledge about.

I'm all ears!

 

[gregory]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Although they take some more dialling in to be sure and the mag itself takes about 2 weeks to fully settle into the pickup if others have been in there first

I assume you're using some kind of measuring device/s or process/es to being able to make the assessment, so I'm very excited to learn about something I fully admit having no knowledge about.

I'm all ears!

Me too!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Take it up with Gibson

Gibson didn't publish it on the Forum. You did. Hence I'm talking to you, as I should.

"It may be a little counterintuitive, but Alnico III is the weakest of the magnets

It should read the weakest of all grades of AlNiCo, including grade 1, which's not been produced for many decades.

Another allegedly for the uninformed "counter-intuitive" Alnico grade is A6, which is less powerful than A5. The"counter-intuitive" bit comes from the wrong assumption that Alnico Grades should be consequentially more powerful following the numbers, but that's not been the case. The numbers's been given in the order the new alloys' been presented to the MMPA and accepted as part of the AlNiCo family.

The reason for the creation of the A3 was necessity, and war. At that time, all disposable Cobalt was granted exclusively for the used by the military in order to produce weapons and ammo, and it was a notable win for science in coming up with a solution allowing to produce permanent magnet material bypassing Cobalt altogether, which at the time for many seemed like an impossible task to see through.

This new material was used in p'up making first in Gibson's E13 p'up model, the predecessor of the P-90, and in the earliest P-90s.

Lew, should I expect to see you in the "Sound Room", talking about the last news about irrefutable proof that the earth is, as a matter of fact, flat?

HTH,

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Me too!

So... how you know?

You didn't answer the question.

And no, I won't let it go.

 

[gregory]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

And no, I won't let it go.

Neither will I.

Thanks for shining a light on the issue.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Neither will I. Thanks for shining a light on the issue.

So, it was your rump doing the talking, then?

 

[gregory]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

I've been caught red handed.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

To gregory: I was on my tablet before, so I didn't see the link embedded on the phrase.

The subject is the "settle-in" time when mag swap p'ups. OK, as I've said several times before: I don't have the science to back this up, it just happens.

This is something I've noticed in 2008 for the first time, when I started offering "p'up modding" to my services as a moonlighting guitar-tech. I have a fixed gear setup, so the only variable of what I hear is the instrument itself and its setup. The recurring instruments always required a second adjustment of the p'ups' setup to achieve the desired tonal balance, and everybody swear that they didn't touch a thing, so I did the work on my own instruments and recorded the same part with a couple of days and a weeks' distance, and started to listen using a DAW. That's when I consistently found the first and last take sounded different.

I've been given several brainy explanations for the phenomenon as a kind of little-known effect of magnetism at the crystal lattice molecular structure of the alloys used in p'up making, creating paths for the magnetism to travel, just like water flow create rivers, erosion and the likes, establishing the magnetic field projection and shape that would remain the same after the initial adjustment, which, BTW, some think the actual playing time of the instrument another variable to be taken into consideration as well. I wouldn't go that far, as for practical purposes, I consider it to be overkill.

Well, TBH, most of the math shown to me was way over my head to fully comprehend. However, it was enough to prevent to commit myself to a mental institution, as I suspected I was having aural hallucinations.

Bottom line: I don't know why it happens, I just know it does. From the data I gathered, a guideline or timetable of the different Alnico grades emerged, which goes from a couple of days in the case of A8 and even though I've documented cases for up to four weeks in the case of A3, the average will be closer to two weeks. The other mags go in the middle, depending on the capacity of holding a charge. After being fully-charged, if you put it in the p'up right away, the "settle-in" time will be longer by approximately a day.

HTH,

 

[gregory]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Without objective evidence supporing these anecdotes, I don't see any reason to believe them; sorry.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

Without objective evidence supporing these anecdotes, I don't see any reason to believe them; sorry.

It's alright.

Believing or not won't affect the outcome.

HTH,

 

[gregory]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

I disagree: it is well understood in scientific circles that belief does affect the outcome.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3

I disagree: it is well understood in scientific circles that belief does affect the outcome.

Does belief prevents the sun from coming up every morning?

It doesn't.