expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
- Thread starter rickmurphy
- Start date
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
Lol. I got such a kick out of thanaton. Interesting debate about magnet settling in time. I'm an A3 fan. I think it's natural if you like A2. It's kind of soft and sweet like A2 but crisp too and less boggy. A4 is a trip! Ultra accurate.
Lol. I got such a kick out of thanaton. Interesting debate about magnet settling in time. I'm an A3 fan. I think it's natural if you like A2. It's kind of soft and sweet like A2 but crisp too and less boggy. A4 is a trip! Ultra accurate.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
I am amazed how many people I have seen over the years keep getting banned and keep coming back to argue the same old **** under a new name. Must have a sad life.
I am amazed how many people I have seen over the years keep getting banned and keep coming back to argue the same old **** under a new name. Must have a sad life.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
Too much note separation for me.
I like to hear the notes blending together more for a warmer tone.
Smear...blending...whatever description gets the idea across.
A4 reminds me of an acoustic guitar tone but without the warmth.
I could see using them in a spare guitar for a change of pace though.
It's a cool tone. Just couldn't be my only tone.
A3? Just haven't found it to be useful or to have an appealing sound for the way I play.
Yep. Ultra accurate.
Too much note separation for me.
I like to hear the notes blending together more for a warmer tone.
Smear...blending...whatever description gets the idea across.
A4 reminds me of an acoustic guitar tone but without the warmth.
I could see using them in a spare guitar for a change of pace though.
It's a cool tone. Just couldn't be my only tone.
A3? Just haven't found it to be useful or to have an appealing sound for the way I play.
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Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
For myself, it is enough to know that I have personally witnessed the effect. I'm not going to take the time to delve further into it because it's just not worth it to me.
Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
I'll be interested in seeing the results of your study.
For myself, it is enough to know that I have personally witnessed the effect. I'm not going to take the time to delve further into it because it's just not worth it to me.
Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
I had no idea until I started this gig. It is a lot.
I had no idea until I started this gig. It is a lot.
gregory
New member
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
If it really is the same old **** and a bannable offense for discussing it, then members shouldn't be allowed to make the claims if other members aren't allowed to ask for proof of these claims.
I hate to break it to JeffB, but this is the only account I've ever had here; and you can be sure I am not the only person in the world interested in proper scientific method in order to establish an objectively verifiable reality which doesn't come in the way of anecdotal evidence. Now if I get banned because I know a little something about the pitfalls of the casual sighted evaluation of sound quality and refuse to drink the cool-aid because of it then so be it.
I would hope that there is equal treatment since I wasn't the first person in the discussion to ask for proof. And if this is about civility, I can point to plenty of less than friendly posts made by long-time members, though they can easily be found in this very topic.
If it really is the same old **** and a bannable offense for discussing it, then members shouldn't be allowed to make the claims if other members aren't allowed to ask for proof of these claims.
I hate to break it to JeffB, but this is the only account I've ever had here; and you can be sure I am not the only person in the world interested in proper scientific method in order to establish an objectively verifiable reality which doesn't come in the way of anecdotal evidence. Now if I get banned because I know a little something about the pitfalls of the casual sighted evaluation of sound quality and refuse to drink the cool-aid because of it then so be it.
I would hope that there is equal treatment since I wasn't the first person in the discussion to ask for proof. And if this is about civility, I can point to plenty of less than friendly posts made by long-time members, though they can easily be found in this very topic.
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JeffB
Let it B
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
Dont worry. I am not losing a moments sleep over any posts in this thread or any other thread. You and Pepe and Lew whip em out and keep sizing yourselves up. Gives those of.us who don't frequent The Soundroom much something to laugh about.
Dont worry. I am not losing a moments sleep over any posts in this thread or any other thread. You and Pepe and Lew whip em out and keep sizing yourselves up. Gives those of.us who don't frequent The Soundroom much something to laugh about.
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
Hello , I am new to the forum .
People that say , and this goes for all things hearing wise ( you can expand ) , that they don't hear things should not post their comments , because some people have better hearing than others , A FACT , just like sight , some people see better than others .
Now , concerning 59 , my opinion is , that it's the best produced pickup that works best for all kinds of music , especially period “ correct time “. I tried it in so many guitars and so many amps that it would take a long time to list .
But when I read about sound of , pickup wise ( and or anything else sound wise ) the lack of information is staggering even for gathering general-direction lets call it info . 99.9% of posts , either from the person asking the ? or the person/s answering are incomplete and there for cannot be taken seriously .
The person asking the ? should be as much precise as possible ( as the person answering ), what guitar , what string gauge ( tuning , pitch ) , what pickup/s , height ( flat screws or adjusted on both pickups ) , what amp ( preamp , poweramp gain ), bedroom level , stage level , what cab ( 4x12 , 212, 212-oversized, 112 etc, what cab wood – in depth ) , what speaker/s , what pick – and again 99.9% will not ask or will dismiss it as irrelevant (the plectrum) and they couldn't be farther from the sound as anything else they think is irrelevant , what pedals if any , what do they want from the “ sound “ ?.
So I will tell you mine signal chain , Ltd 401 VF , 59n/59b ( screws adjusted as I hear they need to be on both pickups and pickup height , 5 mm bridge pickup and 6.5mm neck pickup fretted at the last fret from the bottom of the string ) , 50 w clone Plexi ( Madcat , hand wired , point to point , with Mercury magnetic transformers and transformers are much, much important than tubes among everything else , but 99.9% talk about tubes disregarding everything else , every other part including the circut of the amp , and every other part that makes an amp , current wise ) with 212 Zilla oversized cab-studio pro ( Celestion G12H 55 Hz , siberian birch cab wood / 9 ply ) , 10-46 D'addario , E flat 432Hz , dimmed when I play ( Dunlop Tortex or Jazz Stubby 1mm picks ) .
You need to know what you want and if you want to be period correct , you can't just put in "pafs- with whatever magnets , winds and whatever" and play through a mesa boogi triple rect ( or what ever amp ) with lets say preamp gain ( and every other technically false input , even playing style ) and expect to get a 50-60-70-ties period correct rock-paf sound .
And all this is “ omittnig “ lot of info-variables when you want to be lets say period correct , like the different build amps ( every part that goes into the amp ) , “ pickup “ magnet ( magnet alloy , the technology being used for most part now days is more precise , what % of what alloy and so forth ), pickup wire , insulation of pickup wire , speakers ( and everything that goes into the speaker ) and everything else that goes into a “ sound “ with now days controled “ variables “ ( for better or worse, different materials and control checks ) .
So when someone says he/she has recreated a “ paf “ “ sound “ , hm ????
My opinion is, if you dont like the sound you got try changing pickup height first after knowing what “ your “ amp sound is , starting with “ general rules “ for height and go from there ( and don't use 1 / 4 of a turn for pickup height , use 1 / 20 of a turn ) and then afer you like the over all ( and balanced sound – if that's your thing volume vise ) sound , adjust the pole screws to get even more balanced – precise sound if you need/want to . Start from there and then “ work your way up “ . Read and then read some more with a critical mind and use common sense .
Anything and everything makes a change no matter what “ they “ tell you , for better or worse that is a different matter but anything and everything makes a change .
Hello , I am new to the forum .
People that say , and this goes for all things hearing wise ( you can expand ) , that they don't hear things should not post their comments , because some people have better hearing than others , A FACT , just like sight , some people see better than others .
Now , concerning 59 , my opinion is , that it's the best produced pickup that works best for all kinds of music , especially period “ correct time “. I tried it in so many guitars and so many amps that it would take a long time to list .
But when I read about sound of , pickup wise ( and or anything else sound wise ) the lack of information is staggering even for gathering general-direction lets call it info . 99.9% of posts , either from the person asking the ? or the person/s answering are incomplete and there for cannot be taken seriously .
The person asking the ? should be as much precise as possible ( as the person answering ), what guitar , what string gauge ( tuning , pitch ) , what pickup/s , height ( flat screws or adjusted on both pickups ) , what amp ( preamp , poweramp gain ), bedroom level , stage level , what cab ( 4x12 , 212, 212-oversized, 112 etc, what cab wood – in depth ) , what speaker/s , what pick – and again 99.9% will not ask or will dismiss it as irrelevant (the plectrum) and they couldn't be farther from the sound as anything else they think is irrelevant , what pedals if any , what do they want from the “ sound “ ?.
So I will tell you mine signal chain , Ltd 401 VF , 59n/59b ( screws adjusted as I hear they need to be on both pickups and pickup height , 5 mm bridge pickup and 6.5mm neck pickup fretted at the last fret from the bottom of the string ) , 50 w clone Plexi ( Madcat , hand wired , point to point , with Mercury magnetic transformers and transformers are much, much important than tubes among everything else , but 99.9% talk about tubes disregarding everything else , every other part including the circut of the amp , and every other part that makes an amp , current wise ) with 212 Zilla oversized cab-studio pro ( Celestion G12H 55 Hz , siberian birch cab wood / 9 ply ) , 10-46 D'addario , E flat 432Hz , dimmed when I play ( Dunlop Tortex or Jazz Stubby 1mm picks ) .
You need to know what you want and if you want to be period correct , you can't just put in "pafs- with whatever magnets , winds and whatever" and play through a mesa boogi triple rect ( or what ever amp ) with lets say preamp gain ( and every other technically false input , even playing style ) and expect to get a 50-60-70-ties period correct rock-paf sound .
And all this is “ omittnig “ lot of info-variables when you want to be lets say period correct , like the different build amps ( every part that goes into the amp ) , “ pickup “ magnet ( magnet alloy , the technology being used for most part now days is more precise , what % of what alloy and so forth ), pickup wire , insulation of pickup wire , speakers ( and everything that goes into the speaker ) and everything else that goes into a “ sound “ with now days controled “ variables “ ( for better or worse, different materials and control checks ) .
So when someone says he/she has recreated a “ paf “ “ sound “ , hm ????
My opinion is, if you dont like the sound you got try changing pickup height first after knowing what “ your “ amp sound is , starting with “ general rules “ for height and go from there ( and don't use 1 / 4 of a turn for pickup height , use 1 / 20 of a turn ) and then afer you like the over all ( and balanced sound – if that's your thing volume vise ) sound , adjust the pole screws to get even more balanced – precise sound if you need/want to . Start from there and then “ work your way up “ . Read and then read some more with a critical mind and use common sense .
Anything and everything makes a change no matter what “ they “ tell you , for better or worse that is a different matter but anything and everything makes a change .
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
A4 is a mag that seems to let the wind shine for what it is. In that way if your hot wind has some natural characteristics it will make these come through. Other hot winds are more bland and rely more on the magnet to push certain frequencies.
A3 is a mag that requires a certain setup or tweaking to make it sound right. There is a much narrower band of height adjustment that sounds great.......but even with low winds like vintage strats it can really do great things. Of course you can get the whole pickup closer to the strings which in some cases is just what you want.
A4 is a mag that seems to let the wind shine for what it is. In that way if your hot wind has some natural characteristics it will make these come through. Other hot winds are more bland and rely more on the magnet to push certain frequencies.
A3 is a mag that requires a certain setup or tweaking to make it sound right. There is a much narrower band of height adjustment that sounds great.......but even with low winds like vintage strats it can really do great things. Of course you can get the whole pickup closer to the strings which in some cases is just what you want.
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
When one takes differences into consideration, you eliminate variables. So for one person, their string gauge is not a variable, and the typical change will be as seen.
But what is also there is the fact that there are other variables that people cannot anticipate. Playing style and rig are two of them. So the results may vary.
Lastly, there is no way that what we are saying is 'what will be seen', merely what us and others have experienced so can pass on as a reasonable expectation. Nobody possesses someone elses ears, and everything passed on as experience HAS to be the findings of your own personal experiments. This is something implied and should be obvious to everybody.
When one takes differences into consideration, you eliminate variables. So for one person, their string gauge is not a variable, and the typical change will be as seen.
But what is also there is the fact that there are other variables that people cannot anticipate. Playing style and rig are two of them. So the results may vary.
Lastly, there is no way that what we are saying is 'what will be seen', merely what us and others have experienced so can pass on as a reasonable expectation. Nobody possesses someone elses ears, and everything passed on as experience HAS to be the findings of your own personal experiments. This is something implied and should be obvious to everybody.
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
rickmurphy,
Did you get your answer? Things really got off topic for you, it seems. If you are still reading.
I hope so, I was reading and realized at the end that you had actually asked a question that seemed straight ahead.
If not, the folks here are good at this and maybe they will get back to it. They know more than I do, or I would offer an answer myself.
Side note: Demanic - your post #55 was really funny! I laughed out loud. Sacrificial Liver! Good stuff.
SJB
rickmurphy,
Did you get your answer? Things really got off topic for you, it seems. If you are still reading.
I hope so, I was reading and realized at the end that you had actually asked a question that seemed straight ahead.
If not, the folks here are good at this and maybe they will get back to it. They know more than I do, or I would offer an answer myself.
Side note: Demanic - your post #55 was really funny! I laughed out loud. Sacrificial Liver! Good stuff.
SJB
gregory
New member
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
Unfortunately there is a problem in presenting this little inconvenient truth to people who are unaware of it. No one likes it when their personalized version of reality is called into question, and it is viewed as an affront. Now if waiting a week or ten is necessary to keep you headed forward in the path of chasing tone when swapping magnets then so be it. If that delay isn't required for others making the exact same changes there is no harm in that either.
Now if the angry mob carrying torches and pitchforks wants to burn me at the stake for espousing such sacrilege and challenging one of their own, you now have the podium.
There are still other variables that need to be controlled. A-priori knowledge of what is being auditioned as it is being auditioned is something that can be accounted for as it can and often does have an effect over the perceived outcome. When signals that reach the brain from the inner ear are in conflict with other stimuli and/or preconditioning, the brain can and will overrule/reinterpret it resulting in a perception of a reality that didn't actually occur.
Unfortunately there is a problem in presenting this little inconvenient truth to people who are unaware of it. No one likes it when their personalized version of reality is called into question, and it is viewed as an affront. Now if waiting a week or ten is necessary to keep you headed forward in the path of chasing tone when swapping magnets then so be it. If that delay isn't required for others making the exact same changes there is no harm in that either.
Now if the angry mob carrying torches and pitchforks wants to burn me at the stake for espousing such sacrilege and challenging one of their own, you now have the podium.
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gregory
New member
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
I agree, but in keeping with my post, how one feels and interacts will be based on more than just the changes in air pressure causing one's eardrums to vibrate. My point is that a properly designed and executed experiment will strive to use an objective means to gauge changes and not rely on the subjective interpretation of the individual performing the evaluation.
Now if putting a magnet under your dog's bed for a week before placing it in your pickup has a positive affect on how you play, who am I to argue? More power to you! Just don't assume it is because you have better ears than someone who takes a different approach and gets similar positive results.
I agree, but in keeping with my post, how one feels and interacts will be based on more than just the changes in air pressure causing one's eardrums to vibrate. My point is that a properly designed and executed experiment will strive to use an objective means to gauge changes and not rely on the subjective interpretation of the individual performing the evaluation.
Now if putting a magnet under your dog's bed for a week before placing it in your pickup has a positive affect on how you play, who am I to argue? More power to you! Just don't assume it is because you have better ears than someone who takes a different approach and gets similar positive results.
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gregory
New member
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
I agree 100% and am not in any way challenging *any* of that.
Again, if putting a magnet under your dog's bed you feel better in mind, body and spirit and inspires you to just create, go with it; just don't tell someone else what they should expect when they try the same thing (not that I think you're telling people to expect to have the same experiences that you have, Lew).
I agree 100% and am not in any way challenging *any* of that.
Again, if putting a magnet under your dog's bed you feel better in mind, body and spirit and inspires you to just create, go with it; just don't tell someone else what they should expect when they try the same thing (not that I think you're telling people to expect to have the same experiences that you have, Lew).
gregory
New member
Re: expected changes 59 with A4 and A3
I hope I'm not giving the impression that I think all magnets sound the same, otherwise people will need to read back a little further.
I intentionally picked a treatment that hopefully most of us would agree has no efficacy in order to make the point that I have no objections to an individual's source of inspiration.
I hope I'm not giving the impression that I think all magnets sound the same, otherwise people will need to read back a little further.
I intentionally picked a treatment that hopefully most of us would agree has no efficacy in order to make the point that I have no objections to an individual's source of inspiration.
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