JMP/HBE
Well-known member
The problem with your "should be in prison' theory is it only happens to poor people.
Experience with Temu/Aliexpress Guitars?
- Thread starter Masta' C
- Start date
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Care to enlighten us on your perceived flaws in the Chinese legal system?
JMP/HBE
Well-known member
Refering to the play to pay USA system not Jina.
Never been to Jina no way no how.
hard_string
New member
Masta' C
Well-known member
This is a complex issue...
First, I would argue that there's a HUGE difference between buying a copy/replica to mod or enjoy as part of one's own personal collection and trying to pass a fake off as genuine for a profit. Intention is everything in that regard.
Also, it seems the people who already invested in $3K+ Martin and Gibson guitars are the ones who tend to get most upset by this phenomenon. However, that doesn't represent the typical consumer of these "forgeries" by a long shot. Most people buying these low cost copies simply aren't the target demographic for ultra-premium products in the first place.
In other words, Martin is rarely losing out on a real sale because someone bought a $300 Chinese copy off Temu over their $3,000 option. At the end of the day, these $300 copies are really competing in the market segment that includes budget-oriented models from Ibanez, Yamaha, etc., not USA Martins.
There's also a subset of buyers that will go on to buy a real Martin some day because they liked what the budget version brought to the table and they (rightfully or wrongfully) assume the real $3K Martin will be even better.
There's also something to be said about the increasing demand for these well-built replicas over the original products they are copying. It's effectively the market saying "Hey Martin, you sure make a great guitar, but your products are overpriced". Considering most guitar manufacturers have operations overseas these days, there's little reason we're entering an era where mid-grade, Indo-made guitars are netting $1500-$2000. I mean, an entry level, imported Martin with composite sides, a fancy plywood neck, and marginal build quality is $700 these days. It's just corporate greed at all levels. These builders in China are showing buyers that they don't have to pay that kind of money to get a great guitar.
Which raises another issue...there are literally hundreds of small manufacturers creating these products in China, but there's no way most could compete on the open market under their own brand name. In fact, there are already hundreds of Chinese brand names out there that most of us have never heard of. Suggesting a product is "good enough to stand on its own" doesn't mean it actually can. The guitar market is harder to break into than the car market...have you seen many new car brands emerge successfully without bringing entirely new technologies to the table (like Tesla, Rivian, etc)? Not really.
Also, I don't know much about Martin as a company, but similarly perceived "premium" companies like Gibson and Fender are actually pretty shitty corporations who only care about the bottom line, not the actual instruments, their workers, or their customers. They're most concerned with maximizing profit and keeping consumers believing that they are the only brands with "heritage" and that this concept has value. In fact, that exact angle of marketing is the only thing that keeps brands like Fender and Gibson afloat as the quality of their products declines and their prices steadily increase.
To be fair, the consistent onslaught of cheap consumer goods from China has done serious damage to the manufacturing backbone of U.S.-made goods. On the other hand, most U.S.-made products have become overpriced relative to the quality they offer and the efficiency and speed in which they can be manufactured today.
If Martin really wants to combat the counterfeit issue, they should generate better products at the entry level price point. Otherwise, it'll take a full ban on Chinese goods to meaningfully stop the flow of these products into the country and reduce the demand that's ultimately fueling their production.
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JMP/HBE
Well-known member
China out-performs the US in about every catagory. And they make most everything now because we asked them to & paid them to starting in the 1970's w/ Nixon.
To suggest they have "stole" anything from the USA is utterly ridiculas except for espionage activity which the USA does as well.
As US companies outsourced the last 50 years China invested in themselves and are now the global leaders in about every catagory including -
weapons.
Can't have it both ways.
You want a guitar buy a fuggin guitar there's a tariff on it wonder where that came from.
The worst criminals are the ones that don't get locked up.
Can't tap dance around this crap.
Anyone thinks they're gonna "make" China do what they want by slapping them w/ taxes ain't based in reality.
China owns the US economy.
China owns the US Treasury.
Never insult an Asian it goes back Centruries.
To suggest they have "stole" anything from the USA is utterly ridiculas except for espionage activity which the USA does as well.
As US companies outsourced the last 50 years China invested in themselves and are now the global leaders in about every catagory including -
weapons.
Can't have it both ways.
You want a guitar buy a fuggin guitar there's a tariff on it wonder where that came from.
The worst criminals are the ones that don't get locked up.
Can't tap dance around this crap.
Anyone thinks they're gonna "make" China do what they want by slapping them w/ taxes ain't based in reality.
China owns the US economy.
China owns the US Treasury.
Never insult an Asian it goes back Centruries.
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JMP/HBE
Well-known member
Because an orange guy lies to anyone w/a hearbeat about everything everyday ? Yeah that will happen.
JMP/HBE
Well-known member
Well nuke the thread cuz every facet of our lives are political including this topic b/c of one guy.
