Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

[STRATDELUXER97]

Trace likes using the OD 715s in his wonderful V Plex amps....I originally had SOZO Mustard copies in my 50 watt Marshall....Well today I decided to swap all of the Sozo caps for Orange Drop 715s in all the identical values....

The OD caps were darker,there was that grainey stuff(In my amp)riding over notes and the chime on the highs was different and not in a good way...Again YMMV? We're talking my amp and what I heard...Seems the OD caps offer more overall lowend,but they lack the note articulation of the Sozo caps and they have a looser feel...Not bad but I went back to all Sozo caps again and I'm sold on them!

Now the Sozo caps....A bit brighter and livelier,but clear,articulate,percussive,snappy tone...The lows are strong and the mids are great,but clarity and note articulation was really apparent between the two brands...These Sozo caps are Polyester Film(I think?)and the OD 715s are PolyPropelene(Spelling?)..Not sure if the caps in themselves have anything to do with the overall sustain and note harmonic content,but the Sozo caps seem to enhance these harmonics more and I feel they keep the overall amp tighter and cleaner...

The Sozo caps are the winners in my own Marshall amp and the tonal experience was alot of fun and a cool learning experience....

I'm not going to try this,but I wonder how the Mallory 150s would compare to these 2 caps? Anybody?

This was earlier with all Orange Drops....

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

I know what I hear as the diff between Mallory 150's and Orange Drops in an amp and that's that the Mallory's seem smoother...maybe a little warmer.

Now I need to try the Sozo's...you got me curious!

John, just for the heck of it, it'd be cool if you could install a push/pull tone pot in a guitar and compare the Sozo's against the Orange Drops and see if you can hear any diff at all in a guitar.

Lew

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

I know what I hear as the diff between Mallory 150's and Orange Drops in an amp and that's that the Mallory's seem smoother...maybe a little warmer.

Now I need to try the Sozo's...you got me curious!

John, just for the heck of it, it'd be cool if you could install a push/pull tone pot in a guitar and compare the Sozo's against the Orange Drops and see if you can hear any diff at all in a guitar.

Lew

Lew.....I Like the Mallory 150s and they are loaded into my 66 BF Pro Reverb and they're great....Basically I got curious like yourself and bought into the hype and tryed them...I Like them alot though and they are worth the money...In my amp they are....

I have .022 Sozo and M150s in the same value....You're welcome to try them yourself if you like? I'd send them to you? I have a few unused extra Sozo caps....

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

150's = sozo's in my humble opinion. 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

150's = sozo's in my humble opinion. 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Thought so Scott....Both are Polyester Film or Film Foil caps...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

Lew.....I Like the Mallory 150s and they are loaded into my 66 BF Pro Reverb and they're great....Basically I got curious like yourself and bought into the hype and tryed them...I Like them alot though and they are worth the money...In my amp they are....

I have .022 Sozo and M150s in the same value....You're welcome to try them yourself if you like? I'd send them to you? I have a few unused extra Sozo caps....

Probably wouldn't hear any substancial diff...but sure John! I'll give 'em a spin. I have some Mallory 150's. Feel like dropping a .022 Sozo in the mail?

Lewguitar
2525 Arapahoe E42
Boulder, Co 80302

Thanks! Lew

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

Probably wouldn't hear any substancial diff...but sure John! I'll give 'em a spin. I have some Mallory 150's. Feel like dropping a .022 Sozo in the mail?

Lewguitar
2525 Arapahoe E42
Boulder, Co 80302

Thanks! Lew

You got it my buddy Lew! I'll do that Monday morning since I'm on shift tomorrow...

 

[LesPaulRules]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

Cool post and thanks for your observations. I'm thinking of putting together a Super Lead clone (Metroamp? ) and was thinking of the SoZo's.

 

[shredaholic]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

Most of the people who like using Sozos haven't had the same tonal improvement by putting them in guitars - maybe it's the way they interact with the higher voltage in amps?

The differences you describe John between the OD's and Sozo's are pretty much what I noticed when changing from Sozo's to Mallory 150's. With Sozo's the harshness of the Mallories was gone, more harmonics and definition, and more of a "woody" tone - which is what kind of feel I hear from the original Marshalls.

By the way, where do you recommend using metal film resistors for low noise? I notice you've got them pretty much everywhere in that pic, but I want to get just a few at key points to minimise the noise in my Marshall.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

Most of the people who like using Sozos haven't had the same tonal improvement by putting them in guitars - maybe it's the way they interact with the higher voltage in amps?

The differences you describe John between the OD's and Sozo's are pretty much what I noticed when changing from Sozo's to Mallory 150's. With Sozo's the harshness of the Mallories was gone, more harmonics and definition, and more of a "woody" tone - which is what kind of feel I hear from the original Marshalls.

By the way, where do you recommend using metal film resistors for low noise? I notice you've got them pretty much everywhere in that pic, but I want to get just a few at key points to minimise the noise in my Marshall.

Trace Allen(Voodoo Amps)recommended just going all metal films...The CC just add noise.....Even with all MF resistors in my amp,it's smooth,quiet,and I Know that these resistors will read the same values in 3 years as they read now....In my mind this would keep my amp consistent tonally and as a reliability stand point....I haven't answered your question I Know...:smack:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

Most of the people who like using Sozos haven't had the same tonal improvement by putting them in guitars - maybe it's the way they interact with the higher voltage in amps?.

We've had some heated discussions about this! :laugh2: John and I both think there is virtually no diff in tone when we've compared a high quality cap to an even higher quality cap in the tone control of a guitar.

I put a switch in a Strat that would let me select from a .02 Orange Drop and a .02 Hovland Oil N Foil cap on the tone control. I heard so little difference that I'm not sure I heard any difference at all.

I think all this stuff about Oil N Foil caps and Bumblebee caps sounding better than Orange Drops is hype, when it comes to passive tone controls in a guitar.

The output of the cap goes to ground...you don't hear that output. It returns to the Planet Earth and does not remain in the audio signal.

It's differant with amps though...I do hear a diff between differant caps in a guitar amp's circuit...as does John. Obviously...that's what this thread is all about.

Lew

 

[Pierre]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

I thought Sozos were designed SPECIFIALLY to be as close as possible to the caps used in older Marshalls? They're not really designed for guitars no?

 

[firebirdVII]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

Trace Allen(Voodoo Amps)recommended just going all metal films...The CC just add noise.....Even with all MF resistors in my amp,it's smooth,quiet,and I Know that these resistors will read the same values in 3 years as they read now....In my mind this would keep my amp consistent tonally and as a reliability stand point....I haven't answered your question I Know...:smack:

What about Riken Ohm resistors?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

We've had some heated discussions about this! :laugh2: John and I both think there is virtually no diff in tone when we've compared a high quality cap to an even higher quality cap in the tone control of a guitar.

I put a switch in a Strat that would let me select from a .02 Orange Drop and a .02 Hovland Oil N Foil cap on the tone control. I heard so little difference that I'm not sure I heard any difference at all.

I think all this stuff about Oil N Foil caps and Bumblebee caps sounding better than Orange Drops is hype, when it comes to passive tone controls in a guitar.

The output of the cap goes to ground...you don't hear that output. It returns to the Planet Earth and does not remain in the audio signal.

It's differant with amps though...I do hear a diff between differant caps in a guitar amp's circuit...as does John. Obviously...that's what this thread is all about.

Lew

Thanks Lew......Yes this post was to let someone else know what they "might" expect if they were going to recap their amp(Marshall in this case)and you were looking at the Sozo caps or say the common Orange Drops...This is my very accurate interpretation of what I heard in the same day(Actually within a few hours) tonally between the Sozo and the OD 715 caps....The 715 caps are great also,but I favor the Sozo caps in this particular amp....They have this really nice clean,crisp,tighter,punchy attack that I Love...They make the amp feel "livelier"and more articulate compared to the OD 715s.....Livelier and extra dimension of tone is the biggest thing I hear and they are brighter....The Orange Drops were darker and I had to increase the treble,plus they aren't as clear and clean....There was just something I really liked about the Sozo caps that I immediately missed with the OD 715s?

I'm told now that the M150s fall short compared to the Sozo caps? Not sure about that,but the amp circuit each specific cap is in matters....And just like Lew,I've tested guitars,amps,and pedals.In a guitar that shunts everything to ground,I don't hear tonal differences.In a guitar amp however,I do hear differences...Differences I Know I can explain! :dance:

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

I don't find good carbon comp resistors to be noisy. Maybe NOS allen bradleys might be noisy cuz they are old? I dont' know. I buy carbon comps from Mouser. I wish the leads were a tad bit longer, but I love them anyway. I've used carbon film and they work pretty well also.

I've built the exact same amp circuit using Mallory 150's and SoZo's and for what it's worth, I'll probably use the Sozo's when my 150's run out because of all the hype. They're pretty equal, but if people perceive greater tonal value (hype) with SoZo's, I'm happy to jump on that bandwagon!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

I thought Sozos were designed SPECIFIALLY to be as close as possible to the caps used in older Marshalls? They're not really designed for guitars no?

Yes they are copies of a certain period Phillips "Mustard" cap that was used in alot of british amps and NEVE recording consoles....Mustard relates to the color of the cap and they've also been called "cigar" caps because of their shape....Players always manage to come up with these funny descriptive things! :laugh2:

Like the "Black Faced Fender" or the Marshall "Plexi",,,,,Etc.....:6:

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

I also built a blackface amp circuit with sozo caps and the amp was kinda lifeless sounding. I switched over to orange drops and those SPE equivalents and the amp took off!

Two different type of caps will give you different results for sure. It seems that the 150/Sozo style are better with Marshall circuits and orange drops are better in fender circuits. That seems to be the general consensus and I confirmed it to my ears.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

I don't find good carbon comp resistors to be noisy. Maybe NOS allen bradleys might be noisy cuz they are old? I dont' know. I buy carbon comps from Mouser. I wish the leads were a tad bit longer, but I love them anyway. I've used carbon film and they work pretty well also.

I've built the exact same amp circuit using Mallory 150's and SoZo's and for what it's worth, I'll probably use the Sozo's when my 150's run out because of all the hype. They're pretty equal, but if people perceive greater tonal value (hype) with SoZo's, I'm happy to jump on that bandwagon!

Scott,this stuff is very subjective and I'm not going to argue about CC vs MF,CF resistors etc....One thing I do know and there's no arguement about is that the Metal Film resistors are very accurate compared to the same values in the CC,plus they will still be just as accurate in 5 years,as they are today..

One of the places I found out many years ago about the noisey CC resistors was across the 100k plate resistors in both my 67 Deluxe Reverb amp and my 66 Pro Reverb....I now use Carbon Film in those spots....Maybe the newer CC resistors are fine today and they do look vintage correct and cool... I think you have to use larger wattage values to get the lead lengths?

Everyone has their own opinions on this stuff and mine is just based on my own findings....My Marshall sounds absolutely great and it's loaded with all Metal Film resistors....There are other things factoring into why the given amp has "The Tone" or not...

I bought the Sozo caps because of the "hype" but I read alot of the same type posts where guys swore they sounded like original Mustard caps? Instead of paying stupid prices for Mustards,I figured I had nothing to lose by trying the $2 Sozo caps.....In the end,I'm very very happy with these Sozo caps...They might sound like a$$ in my BF Fender if I were to try them,but they sound pretty amazing in my 50 watt Marshall....You know I trust my ears on this stuff.....LOL My only interest was to get the best or most correct sounding caps for my Marshall project and I'm perfectly happy with the M150s that I loaded into my Pro Reverb when they came out...It's another one of those flavor of the month scenarios,but my ears and my instincts have to be the final judge.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

so did you compare 150's to sozo's in the same marhsall amp? granted my ears ain't what they used to be!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Experimented Today! Sozo Caps Vs Orange Drop 715s

so did you compare 150's to sozo's in the same marhsall amp? granted my ears ain't what they used to be!

Scott....Just the Sozo vs Orange Drop 715s.....I don't currently own enough of the M150s to try the comparisons and I won't now because I don't feel the Mallories would be better...I get the feeling the M150s would be kinda the same thing from your findings Scott.

I do like the ODs in Fender BF circuits also.