blueslegend8
New member
i've been listening to a little bit of Andy Mckee lately and he's known to play with a fanned fret guitar. The concept revolves around intonation as well as ergonomics. anybody have any experience with this concept?
Fanned Frets anybody?
- Thread starter blueslegend8
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Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
I've been wanting a fan-fret Conklin bass for some time now, a 7-stringer. Reason being the longer scale on that low B would get rid of those funky harmonics that make it hard to tune.
I've been wanting a fan-fret Conklin bass for some time now, a 7-stringer. Reason being the longer scale on that low B would get rid of those funky harmonics that make it hard to tune.
dweebrocker2.0
New member
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
That guy is insane. I clicked this thread out of curiosity. Very cool!
That guy is insane. I clicked this thread out of curiosity. Very cool!
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
Would love to try one- the bass strings would sound so much better. I'm not a big fan of the open tuned/slap/harmonics playing (although Kaki and Preston do it well too)- and the whole tight hand tapping thing is much better done on a chapman stick. But he sounds purty.
Would love to try one- the bass strings would sound so much better. I'm not a big fan of the open tuned/slap/harmonics playing (although Kaki and Preston do it well too)- and the whole tight hand tapping thing is much better done on a chapman stick. But he sounds purty.
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blueslegend8
New member
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
if you've never heard of Andy Mckee, I would definitely checkout this song...
It makes me feel like Bozz in the scene of "Tigerland" when Bozz get's mad at Cantwell and says:
"Dangit Cantwell! $ht man. $ht! F***, I don't even know you, man! You sittin' there telling your f***ing stories. You make me wanna f***in' cry! What's that about?"
the emotion in the melody of this song just makes you feel... something sincere. (and if you haven't seen that movie, i would recommend it too.)
if you've never heard of Andy Mckee, I would definitely checkout this song...
It makes me feel like Bozz in the scene of "Tigerland" when Bozz get's mad at Cantwell and says:
"Dangit Cantwell! $ht man. $ht! F***, I don't even know you, man! You sittin' there telling your f***ing stories. You make me wanna f***in' cry! What's that about?"
the emotion in the melody of this song just makes you feel... something sincere. (and if you haven't seen that movie, i would recommend it too.)
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
CORRECT!!!
If you, as a player get into some sort of intonation correction...be it fanned frets, bent frets, odd ball nuts, etc you will be closer to intune (still not perfect) and if you play in a settign any ANY other fretted instrument unless they have the same intonation correction system it will be painfully obvious how out of tune BOTH of you are and there is no way to fix it.
Also, I hate the way they feel...I've played a few fanned fret guitars. It's just not for me.
All that said, if you are playing w/o a piano player or something similar it can be very useful and helpful...
CORRECT!!!
If you, as a player get into some sort of intonation correction...be it fanned frets, bent frets, odd ball nuts, etc you will be closer to intune (still not perfect) and if you play in a settign any ANY other fretted instrument unless they have the same intonation correction system it will be painfully obvious how out of tune BOTH of you are and there is no way to fix it.
Also, I hate the way they feel...I've played a few fanned fret guitars. It's just not for me.
All that said, if you are playing w/o a piano player or something similar it can be very useful and helpful...
Pink Unicorn Horsey
Megä Pöny Rÿdr
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
I'm a rock star. I play slide with empty beer bottles and repair my cab grille with duct tape and spit.
I'm a rock star. I play slide with empty beer bottles and repair my cab grille with duct tape and spit.
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
Nope, Total Bull**** as none of the otherwise sound "intonation correction" comments are applicable here.
Contrary to your apparently misinformed statements, Fanned frets (first patented by Novak but first introduced in the late 1800s) were never intended to be an improvement to the tuning and /or intonation, the idea is a wholly different one and unlike "tempered" (more like "tampered") intonation systems absolutely sound from a physical, constructional, and playability standpoint.
Such benefits would be side effects at best and only really noticable on the lower strings, and even then only if the lower strings were lengthened significantly. If one were to retrofit a fanned neck and bridge combo (theoretically possibly, but practically not worth the effort) to an existing guitar whilst not altering the max. scale length (25.5" for a strat for ex.), the intonation would actually become worse on the shortened strings due to the scale being shortened. Contrary to BF, True Temperament, earvana and co, Fanned Frets aren`t dicking around with the standard formulas, altering scale length or repositioning frets. There are zero compatibility issues with other fretted instruments unless you fret like an ox on one string and like a fairy on the next.
Essentially any improved intonation one could percieve is either due to the frets being more properly laid out as gang saws for fanned fretboards don´t exist (so better workmanship), or due to the guitar having a langer scale than one is accustomed to (longer scales throw the string less out of whack percentage wise when fretting, basic physics).
The actual purpose of this principle is simply to combine different scale lengths onto the same neck, increasing the range and musicality of the instrument by lowering tension and speaking length on the higher strings to sweeten up the tone and increasing them on the lower strings to tighten them up. For example the tighter low strings of a strat combined with teh sweeter diskant strings of a Gibson scale.
More extreme examples have a spread in scale of 2-3 inches over 7-10 strings, essentially allowing for baritone, tight rhythm guitar, and sweet lead guitar, all without major compromise, in the same instrument.
It´s much more playable than it looks, too. TBH I´ve been considering building a fanned 7 string for quite some time now...I´m thinking 27"-24.75" scale....
Nope, Total Bull**** as none of the otherwise sound "intonation correction" comments are applicable here.
Contrary to your apparently misinformed statements, Fanned frets (first patented by Novak but first introduced in the late 1800s) were never intended to be an improvement to the tuning and /or intonation, the idea is a wholly different one and unlike "tempered" (more like "tampered") intonation systems absolutely sound from a physical, constructional, and playability standpoint.
Such benefits would be side effects at best and only really noticable on the lower strings, and even then only if the lower strings were lengthened significantly. If one were to retrofit a fanned neck and bridge combo (theoretically possibly, but practically not worth the effort) to an existing guitar whilst not altering the max. scale length (25.5" for a strat for ex.), the intonation would actually become worse on the shortened strings due to the scale being shortened. Contrary to BF, True Temperament, earvana and co, Fanned Frets aren`t dicking around with the standard formulas, altering scale length or repositioning frets. There are zero compatibility issues with other fretted instruments unless you fret like an ox on one string and like a fairy on the next.
Essentially any improved intonation one could percieve is either due to the frets being more properly laid out as gang saws for fanned fretboards don´t exist (so better workmanship), or due to the guitar having a langer scale than one is accustomed to (longer scales throw the string less out of whack percentage wise when fretting, basic physics).
The actual purpose of this principle is simply to combine different scale lengths onto the same neck, increasing the range and musicality of the instrument by lowering tension and speaking length on the higher strings to sweeten up the tone and increasing them on the lower strings to tighten them up. For example the tighter low strings of a strat combined with teh sweeter diskant strings of a Gibson scale.
More extreme examples have a spread in scale of 2-3 inches over 7-10 strings, essentially allowing for baritone, tight rhythm guitar, and sweet lead guitar, all without major compromise, in the same instrument.
It´s much more playable than it looks, too. TBH I´ve been considering building a fanned 7 string for quite some time now...I´m thinking 27"-24.75" scale....
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David Collins
New member
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
I was going to say something to this effect, but decided to be nice and hold back.
Actually, there can be an argument made to this effect, but I would rather describe it more as an improvement in tonality or harmonicity than refer to it as "improved intonation". This has nothing to do with fret spacing ratios, but simply the increase in string length as you move to lower pitches. In theory this works similar to a piano layout, where if you tried to make all the strings the same length, both the upper and lower ranges would have terrible inharmonicity, and you would end up with drastically changing tonality as you moved through the range.
Of course on a fanned fret guitar, you might be increasing string length by maybe 3% per octave at most, compared increases of 30%, 50%, or even as much as 100% per octave in some piano designs, so the changes are not nearly so significant. Still, the changes aren't entirely inconsequential, as there will certainly be a bit of change in tonality as you increase the scale length an inch or inch and a half. This can indeed affect the way a guitar may intonate very slightly (very slightly), in a way similar to how it can affect a console piano's intonation and stretch tuning to be very different relative to a concert grand.
So if we stretch the definition of intonation to include these very small changes in tonality and inharmonicity (which I personally believe it should cover, though these details are not normally thought of within the common definition), then yes, you could say that fanned frets offer a slight change in intonation. This would be a very slight change however, just a hair beyond purely abstract, and again, "intonation" would probably not be my first choice of terms.
This change is only related to differing overtones of strings of different lengths however, and is in no real way related to spacing of the frets or their orientation to the strings. I guess I'm pretty much just reiterating what Zerberus said in a slightly different way.
Actually, if you want to get really picky about the details, I believe there is actually a mathematical error in Novak's patent of this system which unintentionally causes a new irregularity of the fret spacing relative to the strings as you move across the board. This is so, so slight however, that it is easily dumped in to the bin of purely abstract issues, with no effect that could come remotely close to being recognized in practical results.
I was going to say something to this effect, but decided to be nice and hold back.
Actually, there can be an argument made to this effect, but I would rather describe it more as an improvement in tonality or harmonicity than refer to it as "improved intonation". This has nothing to do with fret spacing ratios, but simply the increase in string length as you move to lower pitches. In theory this works similar to a piano layout, where if you tried to make all the strings the same length, both the upper and lower ranges would have terrible inharmonicity, and you would end up with drastically changing tonality as you moved through the range.
Of course on a fanned fret guitar, you might be increasing string length by maybe 3% per octave at most, compared increases of 30%, 50%, or even as much as 100% per octave in some piano designs, so the changes are not nearly so significant. Still, the changes aren't entirely inconsequential, as there will certainly be a bit of change in tonality as you increase the scale length an inch or inch and a half. This can indeed affect the way a guitar may intonate very slightly (very slightly), in a way similar to how it can affect a console piano's intonation and stretch tuning to be very different relative to a concert grand.
So if we stretch the definition of intonation to include these very small changes in tonality and inharmonicity (which I personally believe it should cover, though these details are not normally thought of within the common definition), then yes, you could say that fanned frets offer a slight change in intonation. This would be a very slight change however, just a hair beyond purely abstract, and again, "intonation" would probably not be my first choice of terms.
This change is only related to differing overtones of strings of different lengths however, and is in no real way related to spacing of the frets or their orientation to the strings. I guess I'm pretty much just reiterating what Zerberus said in a slightly different way.
Actually, if you want to get really picky about the details, I believe there is actually a mathematical error in Novak's patent of this system which unintentionally causes a new irregularity of the fret spacing relative to the strings as you move across the board. This is so, so slight however, that it is easily dumped in to the bin of purely abstract issues, with no effect that could come remotely close to being recognized in practical results.
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80's_Metal
Underglazed Hair Metalologist
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
wow!
what the heck was that???
...I am so buffudled.
wow!
what the heck was that???
...I am so buffudled.
El CHupacabra
New member
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
Slide Guitar:
For when You're too cool for frets!
Slide on.
I heard of something similar to this on one of Steve Vai's guitars, except the frets themselves were a little wavy and individually shaped for intonation.
Slide Guitar:
For when You're too cool for frets!
Slide on.
I heard of something similar to this on one of Steve Vai's guitars, except the frets themselves were a little wavy and individually shaped for intonation.
BlueSnMettle
Michaelewski
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
Check out a local guy. He's done a refret for me. Awesome work.
http://www.wlguitars.com/index.php
Looks like he knows what he doing, you think?
Peace,
Darrin
Check out a local guy. He's done a refret for me. Awesome work.
http://www.wlguitars.com/index.php
Looks like he knows what he doing, you think?
Peace,
Darrin
J
Jessie Sammler
Guest
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
Fanned frets? No, not for me. I can barely handle straight ones.
Fanned frets? No, not for me. I can barely handle straight ones.
Frantic_Rock
FragleRockologist
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
Would like to try one myself just to see how it feels and sounds. However that guy's music does absolutely nothing for me. No offense...
Would like to try one myself just to see how it feels and sounds. However that guy's music does absolutely nothing for me. No offense...
alteredbeast
New member
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
OMG that first vid was nuts!! im too much of a cave man to split my brainpiece to do that sh*t. thats some ol' pinky up stuff.
OMG that first vid was nuts!! im too much of a cave man to split my brainpiece to do that sh*t. thats some ol' pinky up stuff.
Virtual Kevorkian
New member
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
Crap, that dude's lost a bunch of weight!
Crap, that dude's lost a bunch of weight!
BlueSnMettle
Michaelewski
Lu_B
New member
Re: Fanned Frets anybody?
Gordon Giltrap uses a 12 string that has fanned frets - http://www.giltrap.co.uk/index.php?page=news&category=05--Guitar_Anorak-apos-s_Pages&display=1559
Gordon Giltrap uses a 12 string that has fanned frets - http://www.giltrap.co.uk/index.php?page=news&category=05--Guitar_Anorak-apos-s_Pages&display=1559
