Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

Robert Delahunt

Showmasterologist
All,

I have been using my Fender Pro Junior here at Kunsan air base, and with great results. Good cleans, and a punchy attitude. I love it.

However, the only problem I'm running into is that it's (ironically) too loud. Sounds impossible, I know, but somehow it's true. I play in a chapel that could seat maybe 200-300 people, and the "stage" or "platform" area is small. I close mic my Pro Junior and have to use the -15dB setting on the Shure KSM57. My volume rarely if ever gets past 1.5 (1 being off). I never get it high enough for the amp to distort (which is fine because I have a Boss ME-50). I'm just surprised at how loud and ballsy it is.

My friend (see a recent thread I made) bought an Epiphone Valve Junior. I didn't like these, personally, because the distortion was so fuzzy. However, he uses his at clean volumes and actually gets good sound from it. I'm not envious of the tone, but I am a bit envious of how he can get more lower volume headroom than I can. On my amp, I turn up the volume until the tubes have room to breathe, and that's at 1.5, and that's almost too loud. On his, he can get the tubes to breathe at lower volumes. The problem mainly is that at above 1.5, the singers are going deaf.

I have read of mods to Fender Pro Juniors that remove hiss and/or hum. That's not the issue here, but it's the overall volume level. I can't afford to do the "clean mod" on mine, nor are there competent amp technicians around here in South Korea (language barrier). What I want is a "half amp" mod. I tried selectively removing tubes and moving them around but I could not get the amp to run on "half" of its power that way (it was a rumor I heard, and I wanted to try it to see if it was true).

Does anyone know of a good, non-destructive, non-permanent way to make the amp lower power? I love it for all out rock, but in the setting I am normally playing in, it's (ironically) too loud at times. The other things I have tried like running the ME-50 output at lower levels, volume knob adjustments on guitar, etc, have all seemed to help some, but the resulting tone isn't as good.

I'm not rich so the mod will have to be affordable. I can rewire military aircraft so I can do most fabrication and/or temporary mods. I just don't want to do anything permanent to the amp. Please let me know if you guys happen to know of a way to do this. Thanks!
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

Attenuator or a lower efficiency speaker. Maybe Little Ant or a MV amp like the Blues Jr.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

You can also check at Eurotubes, as they have a "High Gain" tube set. That plus a less efficient speaker as aforementioned might just do the trick.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

Only amps with four output tubes can do the "half" thing. Output tubes work in pairs - push/pull. With only two (like a Pro Jr) you can't pull one. With four output tubes (like a Marshall 100) you can pull one pair, and the other will work.

I play a 13-watt Marshall clone and I can appreciate where you're coming from; little tube amps can be loud. Look into an attenuator - I have a 25-watt Weber Mini-MASS mounted in the back of my amp, and I highly recommend it. It will let you dial in the volume control to get the ammount of dirt you want from the amp, then adjust the volume between the amp and the speaker.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

I notice a big difference in the Pro Junior's volume with difference speakers although stock I never found it too loud. You could use a lower preamp tube which while it won't give more distortion or anything at lower volumes I found it made it easier to pinpoint the volume at lower actual volumes. As in the range between say 1.2 and 2 goes over 1 to 4.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

Electric guitars were not designed to be played quietly in chapels. What you need, sir, is some whiskey, a dirty bar and some rock-n-roll.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

The old "a guitarist will understand" adage is that a 5watt amp is about as loud as a trumpet blown full tilt by a pro. Imagine that in the chapel. And that 5watt is only half the loudness of a 50watt amp.

Your Pro Junior is a 15watter I think..... that's about 3/4 as loud as a 50watt amp.

To turn your 15 watt amp down to be 1/10th as loud as it is on full - you need to drop it to 5or6 milli-watt (like 0.005watt) - turning it 'right down' like you do will still be running about 0.5 to 1 watt - you need to go a lot quieter.

Weber Mass attenuator is about the only good tone maintaining way, and even that will loose a lot of character, because the speaker will be contributing little or nothing to the tone compared to when you are steaming.

You might need to rethink the whole chapel thing - either DI into the PA through a modeller, or bury your junior under some cushions and DON'T mic it.....
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

i'm also going to have to say don't mic it. it's alot easier to get it cooking with some good tone if you don't:cool2:
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

I'd suggest using a 12AY7 in the first preamp position. If you want further reduction, also use one in the second.
That's the simplest thing I can think of for your problem.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

Electric guitars were not designed to be played quietly in chapels. What you need, sir, is some whiskey, a dirty bar and some rock-n-roll.

I know it's not exactly helpful in any way, but I am nonetheless inclined to agree with this post.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

I'd suggest using a 12AY7 in the first preamp position. If you want further reduction, also use one in the second.
That's the simplest thing I can think of for your problem.

thats what i would try first. not only will it lower the gain but it will also pull more current from the rest of the amp lowering voltages and giving less over all volume.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

The Pro Jr. is quite loud. Class A tendds to be that way. The simple solution, (and I'm surprised you haven't done this), is to use the ME 50.

The easiest way I have found to tame the Junior was to use a tube screamer in front to run the level low, with higher gain. Almost any pedal could do it, including an EQ or a compressor. I'm pretty sure there is a master out on the Me-50 that can be set very low.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

move the amp further away from where the singers are. Seeing that you are miking it, you should be able to find a spot where you can leave the volume where it is or maybe even bring it up a bit & turn down the PA's volume down. Just get a long cable & put the amp like 20 feet away.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

I'd agree to go the route of 12at7 or 12ay7 in one or both of the pre amp stages. Even a 5751 instead of a 12ax7 will be a subtle difference but mostly in gain rather than volume.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

Dude, why stick a mic on it at all?

I have a pj that I haul around town & for 100 odd people in a bar or other small room with unmiked drummers its great. Needs no help, just get it off the ground on a chair or something.

At least have 'em take you out of the monitors & tell the singers get some ballz...

1.5 ain't that loud.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

Unless you are trying to get the amp to sound even cleaner, I would not use a 12AY7, 5751 or any other preamp tube with any less gain then the original 12AX7s... as a matter of fact I'd look for a hot, 12AX7WXT+ or one of the old Chinese Silver Special 7025s (seem to have more gain too) and use that in the first preamp section.... then what I would try is a 15 to 25 watt, 8 ohm resistor and solder it in series with one of the speaker leads or in parallel with the actual speaker lugs.
One setup will double speaker load and one will halve the speaker load... they both will create power tube plate load imbalance that shouldn't hurt the tubes but effect the max power output and tone.
Do the resistor installation to "taste" because I'm not sure which will sound better for your application... although I suspect the resistor in parallel will be a little more grindy sounding with some midrange hump.
Anyhow, with the resistor installed either way, half the total output power of the amp is going into a device that makes no sound and the tubes have a mismatch that will make them produce a little less power too.

APO/FPO? I'll treat.
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

he will need to clarify but i think the op is going for a clean tone, just wants to have more control over the bottom of the volume range
 
Re: Fender Pro Junior "too loud"?

Unless you are trying to get the amp to sound even cleaner, I would not use a 12AY7, 5751 or any other preamp tube with any less gain then the original 12AX7s... as a matter of fact I'd look for a hot, 12AX7WXT+ or one of the old Chinese Silver Special 7025s (seem to have more gain too) and use that in the first preamp section.... then what I would try is a 15 to 25 watt, 8 ohm resistor and solder it in series with one of the speaker leads or in parallel with the actual speaker lugs.
One setup will double speaker load and one will halve the speaker load... they both will create power tube plate load imbalance that shouldn't hurt the tubes but effect the max power output and tone.
Do the resistor installation to "taste" because I'm not sure which will sound better for your application... although I suspect the resistor in parallel will be a little more grindy sounding with some midrange hump.
Anyhow, with the resistor installed either way, half the total output power of the amp is going into a device that makes no sound and the tubes have a mismatch that will make them produce a little less power too.

APO/FPO? I'll treat.

That's my bro! You could also try turning the amp around so the back of the speakers are pointing towards the front of the stage. That's what Roy Buchanan used to do.
 
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