Fender Strat Tone

[badco33]

Let me first say that I am mostly a humbucker Les Paul guy but I do have a American Series Strat and I just built a parts-o-caster. Now that I have two strats I noticed they sound very different and I'm trying to figure out which is the real or traditional strat? My question is- Is there a big difference in tone between a traditional strat and the new American series? Currently my parts-o-caster is a Fender Highway 1 body with a Vintage Callaham 6 point bridge, a maple USA Custom Guitars neck with a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard. I have my antiquity single coil set in the parts-o-caster and I returned the American Series back to stock.

I notice that the American Series is more deep and full sounding. The neck pickup is very thick. You can tell it is a single coil but it still sounds very different from the other strat. Not as chimey. A fairly good tone just different.

My parts-o-caster is very bright sounding. The pickups have great chime and character but becuase I am used to humbuckers I find myself rolling down the tone knobs alot.

The main difference in the two guitars is the bridge and the pickups. Is the American series designed to be more full and deep sounding or is that what the two point bridge does? should there be "that much" variation in the tone? Strat guys help me out here.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

Alnico 5 pickups wound to 6.5K or less is the sound of a vintage Strat in my book.

A lightweight alder or swamp ash body, maple neck with or without a Brazilian fingerboard and a vintage bridge like the Fender '62 RI is the rest of the package.

But vintage isn't better...it just happens to be what I like.

Between differences in bridge/tremolo construction and attachment and differences in pickups, I'd say the pickups would make the biggest diff.

But a heavier tremolo block so that the entire bridge assembly weighs in at about 375 to 380 grams is crucial to getting a deep, resonant vintage tone...IMO.

Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

Check this thread out: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=17874&highlight=ultimate+Stratocaster

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

To me, the american series strats are a modern compromise. You can get them close to a vintage tone, but the stock pickups are wound hotter, the tuners are heavier, the bridge saddles sound different and the wiring is different. Installing a great set of antiquities/fralins will get you close, though.

Strats are very responsive to modification. I'm always amazed at the tonal difference between vintage and modern saddles or vintage low mass tuners and moder heavy ones.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

To me, the american series strats are a modern compromise. You can get them close to a vintage tone, but the stock pickups are wound hotter, the tuners are heavier, the bridge saddles sound different and the wiring is different. Installing a great set of antiquities/fralins will get you close, though.

Strats are very responsive to modification. I'm always amazed at the tonal difference between vintage and modern saddles or vintage low mass tuners and moder heavy ones.

I completely agree.

BTW, I like the vintage strts too. Also, keep in mind that with most vintage style guitars and pickups, you will be rolling back on the tone knobs much of the time, especially at the bridge position.

This is even true on Les Pauls and 335's with PAF's.

 

[Curly]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

I own a recent Am Series strat, and several custom strats.

I think the stock pickups are fine in the current AS strats, since the bridge is a little hotter, and the bridge is wired for tone adjustment, too.

However, I don't find the AS strat "deeper and fuller sounding" than my custom strats.
The more I play strats, the more I think that all the parts contribute to the sum of the whole guitar's tone.

For instance, I'm currently trying to figure out why one of my new customs doesn't sound as good as my Lake Placid Blue strat with identical specs and pickups. At this point, I feel that the problem is a poor soldering job on my part, and lower pot values. (remember that pot values are +- 10%, so they can easily vary from 230k - 270k.) I've had this guitar open a couple of times trying to figure out the problem, and resoldered several connections the other day. Since I still have problems, I'm going to rewire it with new pots and a switch, rather than trying to trouble shoot the problem.

I suppose the point is that there's no reason your custom strat can't sound as full as your AS strat, but I don't believe the difference is in the pickups alone.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

I own a recent Am Series strat, and several custom strats.

I think the stock pickups are fine in the current AS strats, since the bridge is a little hotter, and the bridge is wired for tone adjustment, too.

However, I don't find the AS strat "deeper and fuller sounding" than my custom strats.
The more I play strats, the more I think that all the parts contribute to the sum of the whole guitar's tone.

For instance, I'm currently trying to figure out why one of my new customs doesn't sound as good as my Lake Placid Blue strat with identical specs and pickups. At this point, I feel that the problem is a poor soldering job on my part, and lower pot values. (remember that pot values are +- 10%, so they can easily vary from 230k - 270k.) I've had this guitar open a couple of times trying to figure out the problem, and resoldered several connections the other day. Since I still have problems, I'm going to rewire it with new pots and a switch, rather than trying to trouble shoot the problem.

I suppose the point is that there's no reason your custom strat can't sound as full as your AS strat, but I don't believe the difference is in the pickups alone.

Curly, check how high the saddles are adjusted on both guitars. Maybe look closely to see how much space there in UNDER the saddles or how much leg of the allen ht. adjustment screws is showing under the saddle.

The guitar with the saddles adjusted the highest, will quite probably be the best sounding guitar.

The reason is that the string angle behind the saddles is steeper on the guitar with the saddles adjusted higher...and THAT improves the tone alot, IMO.

That's why a shim in the neck pocket of a Tele or Strat can sometimes improve the tone of the guitar. When you shim the neck, you raise the fingerboard closer to the strings. So you then have to raise the individual saddles and that increases the string angle behind the saddles and improves the tone.

Makes the strings sit more firmly against the saddle surface if the string angle behind the saddles is increased...just as it does when the stop tailpiece on a Les Paul is lowered.

Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

Bumped for Curly...

 

[Thames]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

Hey Lew, you DO think it makes a noticeable difference ?

Would you better have :
- higher saddles, but neck adjusted with micro-tilt
- lower saddles, but direct contact at neck joint.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

I've experimented with leveling the paint and crud inside the neck pocket until it was smooth as glass and doing the same thing to the back of the neck.

I've also experimented with shimming the neck so I could raise the string saddles and thus increase the angle of the strings behind the saddles.

Raising the string saddles made the biggest improvement in tone.

Another thing that helps is making certain that the end of the neck is pressed tightly against the inside of the neck pocket. Makes more improvement in tone than the sides being a tight fit...tho a tight fit all around is probably better still.

Lew

 

[Thames]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

Lew,

I always clean the neck pockets of Strat style guitars I have on my bench. It made a noticeable diff on my MIM Dlx strat, I noticed the change immediatly. I removed the stickers, cleaned the whole mess, sanded both parts and tighten them correctly.

About the neck tilting VS saddles, I'm not talking about shimming the neck, but rather using the Micro-tilt adjustment... so would you prefer having higher saddles and neck adjusted with MT or lower saddles but a good contact at neck joint ?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

Lew,

I always clean the neck pockets of Strat style guitars I have on my bench. It made a noticeable diff on my MIM Dlx strat, I noticed the change immediatly. I removed the stickers, cleaned the whole mess, sanded both parts and tighten them correctly.

About the neck tilting VS saddles, I'm not talking about shimming the neck, but rather using the Micro-tilt adjustment... so would you prefer having higher saddles and neck adjusted with MT or lower saddles but a good contact at neck joint ?

I don't know...I've never owned a micro-tilt Strat.

I've noticed a slight improvement in tone cleaning out all the paint hardened crud and label in the neck pocket too.

But I notice a bigger improvement when I raise the saddles...even if it means shimming the neck alittle.

A pretty sure sign that the neck needs shimming and that the saddles are to low is when the allen screws stick out of the top of the saddles and scrape against my picking hand.

Raising the saddles to increase string pressure so they seat themselves more firmly against the saddles is accomplished in a Les Paul by lowering the stop tailpiece. Any experienced Les Paul player knows about that.

You can't do that on a Strat cuz there's no tailpiece to lower. So you raise the saddles instead and then if the actions to high and the strings are difficult to press down, you shim the neck to raise the fingerboard up to the strings a little.

Pretty standard stuff really.

Lew

 

[jeremy]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

in curlys situation, it may be the difference in wood that hes hearing. if its the same everything else, i wouldnt be suprised if that was part of it.

i agree with lew about the high saddles, tends to increase sustain and get richer tone. as far as the neck shim thing goes i havent shimmed to many of my own guitars, i like higher action, the one i have with a micro tilt neck has a floyd so its tone is different anyway so not very good for comparison

 

[badco33]

Re: Fender Strat Tone

I took what Lew said to heart and looked at both strats and noticed that I do have the action really low and, in fact, I really didn't do a complete set up on either of them so I started over. I raised the saddles on each guitar to get the action that I am normally used to and adjusted the saddles using my radius guages so they are set to the radius of each neck. I didn't shim the necks at all but I did notice a significant change in tone with the "parts-o-caster". The tone became less shrill. A little more deep and focused but also real sparkly. I think I just had the action too low, especially since the neck has taller frets than I am used to. It wasn't buzzing but it was still set up too low. The USA didn't change much. It still seems really deep and wolfy sounding. Not bad but not what I am after. I'm real pleased with the tone on the parts guitar now so thanks for the advice Lew! I should have thought about the setup in the first place. My original idea was to put something together that I liked and then sell the USA strat. After this adjustment I think I am there.

I'll have to post some picks of my "parts-o-caster". It turned out real nice. It's a honey-blonde Highway -1 body that I sprayed with 2 cans of nitro clear coat and buffed out to gloss. Then I found a USA Customs guitar neck on eBay that was a steal. It is flamed maple with a brazilian RW board and has a fat "c" shaped profile which I love. It even came with a shaped nut and included Gotoh vintage locking tuners. I finished the neck with a satin tinted clear nitro for an aged look and I bought a callaham bridge. I then finished it off with a parchment pickguard and the Antiquities. It looks real nice and now I have the sound I want.