Fender's credibility is sinking once again

[frankfalbo]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Everybody has a different interpretation of what the word "exact" means. I think it's fairly well known by now that Fender's interpretation differs from many forum geeks like us. Nothing is exact on a molecular level, so it's just a question of how far you want to zoom out with the camera before things start to seem the same as one another.

I, for one, agree with you because I am a pickup enthusiast. So when I see words like "replica" I expect a certain level of granularity. By contrast, if you're Jelly Belly you might say "This jelly bean tastes exactly like buttered popcorn!" And I will accept that marketing statement because I know what they mean, and I forgive the overstatement.

Did you guys know when wax rings and phonographs were coming out they were often pitched as being "indistinguishable from the original!" LOL

http://www.cyberbee.com/edison/miller_ad.jpg

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

I just picked up one of these used a month ago, I love it. Feels great, fit and finish is good. Pickups are kind of dull sounding from the factory, but swapping the 250 pots to 500k and 50's wiring helps it out alot, even if they don't sound like the original WRHBs.

For the sake of argument did a desire to obtain period correct WRHB's play any part in your decision or were you OK with it not having them?

 

[allbutromeo]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

For the sake of argument did a desire to obtain period correct WRHB's play any part in your decision or were you OK with it not having them?

I'm okay with not having them, but I have looked at a few of the replacement pickups available and original 70s pickups. But I'm not ready to pay that much yet. Mainly I like these for the LP style control layout on a tele body. And it didn't hurt that I got mine with a molded fender hardshell case for $500 in alost mint condition. (It has a couple of very small belt buckle dings on the back)

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Fender's credibility is sinking once again

The decline is in the.......lack of quality and their moronic deals...
Well seem to be the disease of today....
It is like the 80's started up again.

Have you even held a 1970's CBS Fender in your hands? They were complete garbage. I've played an actual 1974 Tele Deluxe that had a neck pocket that looked like it was cut by a preschooler using a pair of Crayola scissors.

The fact that these guitars are currently commanding $3000-$4000 is laughable. In the 90's you almost couldn't give a 70's Fender away.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Hey, Fender lost all credibility after about 1967! So nothing new here. A moot point, nothing to whine about...it is what it is.

I play G&L guitars and Mesa amps. I lost my interest in Fender about 22 years ago, and I ain't goin' back.

Bill

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Have you even held a 1970's CBS Fender in your hands? They were complete garbage. I've played an actual 1974 Tele Deluxe that had a neck pocket that looked like it was cut by a preschooler using a pair of Crayola scissors.

The fact that these guitars are currently commanding $3000-$4000 is laughable. In the 90's you almost couldn't give a 70's Fender away.

I have repaired and tried more than I care to remember....

Fender started to change from 90's and up to the death of Bill Schultz, but they did the usual stupid thing as well, buying up too much stuff( the classic using more than you have thing).
And then the suits took over......you know people with no idea what works.

I don't want to go into what they are doing now......I have nothing nice to say.
But it is not not a good way to keep up a good name, it is rather like some other old US company that likes to glue stuff together and call them guitars.

^Have you ever looked inside a Mesa amp??? It is pathetic.....Evertime we get one of those so called build like a tank things in, the amp techs runs away in horror.....oh ye tube gods save us from the Boogie monster.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

I had an 2006 yjm usa strat and the quality was second to nothing.

That's the only real strat experience i have had.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Less and less guitarists are around who remember what these things sounded like back in the early 70s. I think the tone of them is so, um, unique, that most modern guitarists would hate the originals (and hate how a true early 70s Fender played). I can't blame Fender for making a business decision to market to nostalgiphiles, most of whom don't remember or care what they sounded like.

 

[HiFiRebel]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Fender's marketing is second to none. They have use convinced that there are new models every year and how true to the originals they are than ever before.

I like the Fenders I own, but I won't likely buy any more.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Why anyone would buy Fender when they could invest in a G&L is beyond me.

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[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

I have repaired and tried more than I care to remember....

Fender started to change from 90's and up to the death of Bill Schultz, but they did the usual stupid thing as well, buying up too much stuff( the classic using more than you have thing).
And then the suits took over......you know people with no idea what works.

I don't want to go into what they are doing now......I have nothing nice to say.
But it is not not a good way to keep up a good name, it is rather like some other old US company that likes to glue stuff together and call them guitars.

^Have you ever looked inside a Mesa amp??? It is pathetic.....Evertime we get one of those so called build like a tank things in, the amp techs runs away in horror.....oh ye tube gods save us from the Boogie monster.

The only thing I don't like about the newer ones is the material they're using for the frets. It's extremely soft and wears quickly. I've got a 1996 MIM Telecaster that has frets that are hard as rocks.

But I've got an 07, 08, 09, and 11 MIA Fenders and they're all excellent. Aside from a good setup they haven't needed anything. Compare that to the stuff I've had to do to my 2012 Gibson just to make it playable I'll take a Fender any day.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Why anyone would buy Fender when they could invest in a G&L is beyond me.

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Except investment is a misnomer with G&L. Its more like throw most of the resale out the window.

Even though they are supposedly beter made, the only one I've had was a dog and of course I lost about 70% on resale. The pickups and features don't suit me either.

So I would buy fender 100% of the time in such a choice.....if my own scratchbuilt guitar building came to an end.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Squier has made guitars in Mexico before. But at present, beside the decal and at nuts and bolts level, a Mexican Fender isn't defined from a Squier; there's no gulf in quality. So labeling them all Squiers makes sense, I agree. But Fender runs to the bank offering kids "the same" guitar their hero plays; not an Epiphone. Not a slash/Tribute slash/Sterling. Not a Lead I or Duo Sonic. An actual Strat with no visible caveats to the player.

That devalues the brand, but Fender created a customer, over the last thirty years, who doesn't care. For whom the existence of quality issues only provides more justification to someday lay down a grand for the "hero" guitar Fender has induced them to worship, that they wanted in the first place. Fender USA guitars are as good as they've ever been. B

No. Squiers are made of plywood. I have 2 MIM Strats and except for the pickups both are just a notch under my Ibanez Prestige that costs twice as much. They are even better than my Japanese Charvel SoCal (with all the bent neck and frets sticking out).

What's weird is I can play as effortlessly on the Mex Fenders despite the action about 0.2-0.3 mm higher. Is it the neck being rounder? Maybe. But they are just very exceptional. My only complaint is the number of frets, which is 21.

 

[Cdwillis]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

No. Squiers are made of plywood. I have 2 MIM Strats and except for the pickups both are just a notch under my Ibanez Prestige that costs twice as much. They are even better than my Japanese Charvel SoCal (with all the bent neck and frets sticking out).

What's weird is I can play as effortlessly on the Mex Fenders despite the action about 0.2-0.3 mm higher. Is it the neck being rounder? Maybe. But they are just very exceptional. My only complaint is the number of frets, which is 21.

Some of the older Squier lines may have had plywood bodies, but I don't think any of them do now unless it's the real bottom tier lines like the Affinity or Bullet series maybe.

I don't understand why Fender doesn't make the Wide Range humbuckers closer to the original construction. I understand they can't get the original magnetized pole piece material, but they could substitute alnico magnets. Surely today's tool and die advancements would make it possible. Maybe it's just an issue of R&D cost.

Personally, I think Fender has been doing pretty well mostly. Aside from the vintage reissue stuff, they are continually innovating, even if slightly. Their bread and butter is still the vintage designs so they can't stray that far. You're not going to see a Strat with fanned frets and multiscales, but they do attempt to improve. You've got various noiseless pickups, the Shawbucker, S1 switching systems, etc. Look at how bad Gibson is.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

No. Squiers are made of plywood. I have 2 MIM Strats and except for the pickups both are just a notch under my Ibanez Prestige that costs twice as much. They are even better than my Japanese Charvel SoCal (with all the bent neck and frets sticking out).

What's weird is I can play as effortlessly on the Mex Fenders despite the action about 0.2-0.3 mm higher. Is it the neck being rounder? Maybe. But they are just very exceptional. My only complaint is the number of frets, which is 21.

I have never seen one made of plywood. In the 90's when they were made in Mexico the bodies were poplar. The overseas made ones are mostly basswood.

 

[YeRedHouseOverYonder]

Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Aside from a good setup they haven't needed anything. Compare that to the stuff I've had to do to my 2012 Gibson just to make it playable I'll take a Fender any day.

+1 Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. I'd take a MIA Fender standard over any of the Gibson equivalent line over the last 4 years or so. The most recent Fender I have owned was a channel bound strat. The maple "binding" was a pretty cool feature IMO. The strat played fine and sounded like it should. Frets were fine. The only gripe I had for it was the 2 point bridge.


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[Mincer]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

I would think at this point, they are competing against their own past. Every year, they have to change something slightly (but not too much!!) and state it is closer to the way they used to make them, while hitting every price point at $30 increments. I think it is confusing to a consumer to sort out all of the models over the years.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

I would think at this point, they are competing against their own past. Every year, they have to change something slightly (but not too much!!) and state it is closer to the way they used to make them, while hitting every price point at $30 increments. I think it is confusing to a consumer to sort out all of the models over the years.

The $30 increments are annoying as ****. For the price of a Fender Deluxe nowadays, I could buy a Suhr Classic Pro. Doesn't take a genius to figure out which one I would be going for.

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[Myaccount876]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

^Have you ever looked inside a Mesa amp??? It is pathetic.....Evertime we get one of those so called build like a tank things in, the amp techs runs away in horror.....oh ye tube gods save us from the Boogie monster.

I saw pictures of the inside of the Mark V amps and Triple Recs. They seem like the BMW of amps - great amps to lease/rent, but a completely different story to own and work on. I would rather not have an amp that runs over a dozen tubes, and I have to buy Mesa branded tubes with their specific color codes to ensure they're in the correct operating range. And even if you convert it to an adjustable bias, you have to do so in a crammed chassis with a busy PCB; not to mention some amps have a set of 6 power tubes, so unless you add a couple of bias controls, you'll still have to find a closely matched set of 6 tubes or the amp is going to hum. Give me an old turret board amp with not too many tubes, and either a cathode bias circuit or an adjustable fixed bias circuit for each power tube so any set of the same type can be matched. I think the amps sound great, but I think they'd be a headache for me to own.

But I have nothing bad to say about G&L. I remember that Leo Fender said that from all his years with Fender, Music Man, and finally G&L, that G&L were the best instruments he ever made. Granted, he wasn't a musician, but I believe the claim - their import models are at a lower price point than new MIM Fenders, but in terms of quality, compete with MIA Fenders. Innovative and beautiful instruments too. Not to say that I don't appreciate a good traditional Fender Telecaster - I still do.

 

[ledzef]

Re: Fender's credibility is sinking once again

Why would Fender want to go back to the inferior 3 bolt neck? They were garbage than can't imagine they have gotten any better.

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